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Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

111
Is this generally known? A very old website to the trionfi of Petrarca.
https://petrarch.petersadlon.com/read_t ... age=V-I.en

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quoted by MikeH
Cohen (p. 313) quoted MikeH
2 Vienna, Österreichische Nationalbibliothek, MSS. 2581 & 2582, early 16th c., Parisian.
French translation. Eighty-six miniatures in vol. I and sixty-five in vol. II include illuminations of the six Triomphes as well as scenes of persons and episodes referred to in the text. the miniatures are attributed to the same Parisian workshop as Paris mss. 12424, 5065 and 223, all closely related to the first french edition of the Triomphes (Verard, Paris, 1514).
Verard, Paris, 1514
https://portail.biblissima.fr/ark:/4309 ... aaf193a661 ............... Petrarca is not noted
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Vérard ........... Petrarca is not noted, Trionfi is not noted

Paris mss. 12424
https://portail.biblissima.fr/ark:/4309 ... 5eaf51f00f ..... Petrarca is not noted, "Anonyme | Triomphes", time of production 1503-14
https://www.arlima.net/mss/france/paris ... 12424.html .... Petrarca is noted

Gallica version, black-white ..... https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b9063616t .... the text starts with the picture of Fame with 4 elephants, which in the Vienna edition is in 2581, page 366 .... https://digital.onb.ac.at/RepViewer/vie ... iew=SINGLE ... the following picture looks also like an identical copy.

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Ups .... This looks like an interesting article by Alessandro Turbil .... https://journals.openedition.org/studif ... 73?lang=fr .... some interesting pictures
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Added later:

From this ...
Aux alentours de 1503, sous l’impulsion du cardinal Georges d’Amboise, une version française du commentaire aux Triumphi par Bernardo Ilicino, composé en 1475, devait paraître à l’intention du roi Louis XII [Footnote 6]. Cette version nous a été transmise intégralement par quatre manuscrits, dont trois illustrés (Paris, BnF fr. 223; Paris, BnF fr. 594; Paris, BnF fr. 22541) [Footnote 7].
Footnote 6 M. Jacob, Les premières représentations cit., p. 199.
Footnote 7 Le seul témoin non illustré est l’exemplaire Paris, BnF fr. 595-596; il existe encore un exemplaire fragmentaire non illustrée contenant le seul Triumphus Cupidinis (Glasgow, UL, MS Hunter 340).
automatic translation
Around 1503, at the instigation of Cardinal Georges d'Amboise, a French version of the commentary to the Triumphi by Bernardo Ilicino, composed in 1475, was to appear for King Louis XII [Footnote 6]. This version has been transmitted to us in full by four manuscripts, three of which are illustrated (Paris, BnF fr. 223; Paris, BnF fr. 594; Paris, BnF fr. 22541) [Footnote 7].
[Footnote 6] M. Jacob, The First Representations cit., p. 199.
[Footnote 7] The only non-illustrated witness is the copy Paris, BnF fr. 595-596; there is still an unillustrated fragmentary example containing the single Triumphus Cupidinis (Glasgow, UL, MS Hunter 340).
There is a contradiction between Cohen Paris mss. 12424, 5065 and 223 and this article (Paris, BnF fr. 223; Paris, BnF fr. 594; Paris, BnF fr. 22541) by Alessandro Turbil.
Paris, BnF fr. 594 I find at Gallica .... https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b60007856 .... with the title "Pétrarque, Les Triomphes, traduction rouennaise anonyme, avec le commentaire de Bernardo Lapini." Bernardo Lapini is identical to Bernardo Ilicino.

Image
Last edited by Huck on 07 Aug 2023, 04:23, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

112
Responding to some relevant points in the discussion that unfolded since I was last here:

1.
Mike, you really need to get away from this notion that the "new world" of heaven had to be totally immobile and motionless. It is taking Petrarch's meaning far too far, and it is absurd. You seem to be suggesting that the eternal world of heaven would be populated by statues: people and animals incapable of the slightest movement. When Petrarch says he has a vision of a mondo novo, in etate immobile ed eterna, he simply means that this new world is unchanging—each day in that world would be just like the previous day, and nothing would ever pass away or perish. He doesn't mean that nothing would ever physically move! The VdM World isn't the only early depiction of Petrarch's Eternity that showed ships moving on waterways—several of the earliest Florentine illustrations of Eternity also showed ships moving on the seas of the eternal new world. There is nothing strange or inconsistent about this at all.

2.
Cohen's information in the appendix to Transformations of Time and Temporality is not entirely reliable. I have found several errors in it, which were mostly carried over from earlier sources. Ms. Barb.Lat.3943 was attributed to the Master of the Vitae Imperatorum (or at least his workshop) not only by Samek Ludovici and Trapp, but also by Carandente in I Trionfi nel primo Rinascimento (Turin: ERI, 1963), p. 52.

3.
Ross Caldwell wrote: 05 Aug 2023, 10:03 For what it's worth, my view of the relationship of Petrarch Trionfi imagery and Tarot trump imagery is (and has long been) that the same artists, miniaturists, worked on both, so it is natural that sometimes they would conflate the subjects where they overlapped.
[...] I take this striking coincidence to be evidence that the same artists and intellectuals invented both the game and the Petrarchan allegories.
Yet the "coincidences" extend well beyond the imagery used. Most notably, they include the very name of the game: Trionfi. For a game already known to have included the subjects of Love, Death, and Time, and in at least some instances also Chastity and/or Fame, it would be a very extraordinary coincidence indeed if that game were not at least partly based on Petrarch's poem cycle.

A further "coincidence" is the fact that the interest in illustrating the Trionfi cycle arose at the same time that the game became popular. Remember that the illuminated manuscripts containing Petrarch's Trionfi poems frequently also included his sonnets to Laura (his rerum vulgarium fragmenta, a.k.a. Rime or Canzioniere), but the latter were almost never illustrated at all, except sometimes for a single illumination at the start. This practice was unchanged from previous decades. It is only the Trionfi poems which suddenly began to be given a complete set of six illustrations, at precisely the time when the Trionfi game emerges in the historical record. Another extraordinary coincidence.

Finally, there is the "coincidence" that the illustrations took the form of just one image for each of the six poems, an image that depicted the subject of the poem as an allegorical figure (with the exception of Eternity, where the allegorical figure was usually replaced by the real figure of the Divinity). Think about that: there are many other illustrative schemas that could have been adopted, including some that would have been rather more "natural" than this. For instance, there could easily have been more than one image per poem, as indeed became the case in some later manuscripts and printed editions of the poems. Yet there almost never was. Or the images could have shown the actual scenes that Petrarch described in the text, rather than being abstract representations of each of the titular subjects, disconnected from Petrarch's words.

But neither of those approaches would have worked in the context of a card game where each Triumph had to be depicted on a card in a way that would make it quickly and easily recognizable. This is one of the most compelling reasons why I think the Trionfi game/deck was the origin of the mid-15th century trend for Trionfi illustration: the manner in which the Trionfi were depicted in those early illustrations is most easily explained if the whole trend began with the Trionfi deck, where each Triumph was depicted by a fairly simple allegorical figure on a card.

(As for the Rosenwald deck, yes, I think it does constitute a general simplification of earlier (Florentine) designs. That simplification is apparent in several of its trumps, perhaps most strikingly the Pope, deprived of his attribute objects except for a small, sparsely sketched key, held in a single, barely visible hand.
If you want to try to reconstruct the earliest version of a given tarot trump, you need to make a comparison of all the early instances known, whether those are surviving cards, or documents that tell us something about the appearance of the trumps at the time. On that basis, we have no good reason to think that the first Old Man card represented anything other than Time: all the surviving early cards except the Rosenwald either clearly show Time, or they show the old man with the lantern that was clearly a modification of the earlier hourglass of Time. The earliest meaningful descriptions also indicate that the card depicted Time, even in cases where it was known by the name of Vecchio or Gobbo.)


4.
As I have already made clear, I do not share Mike's excitement about ms. Barb.lat.3954. Yes, it's true that its Eternity shares a couple of elements with the Visconti-Sforza Judgment/Angel card, but certainly nothing so unusual as to indicate an important link between them. The Time illumination in Barb.lat.3954 is somewhat similar to the Old Man card, and Death has the uncommon bow and arrow of the Visconti-Sforza image, but there is nothing of any real significance beyond that. In this case, just as in the case of Barb.lat.3943, I am essentially in agreement with Ross: these features are not compelling enough to indicate anything more than the fact that the illuminations come from the same place and roughly the same era as the Lombard cards, and consequently sometimes make use of similar iconography for the same or similar subjects. Crucially, they don't mean that the Visconti-Sforza Judgment card was necessarily thought to represent Eternity. I would not rule out that possibility completely, but it seems very unlikely that all six Petrarchan Trionfi were ever present in that deck, as there is no surviving card that plausibly corresponds to Chastity. So even if the cards retained some lingering associations with Petrarch's poem cycle at that stage, it seems unlikely that the poems were still considered important or central to the game by those who designed that particular deck, and their Judgment card may simply have been a depiction of the Last Judgment, with no further meaning intended.

The same cannot be said for the VdM World, however, because of the Robertet Eternity image. What makes the Robertet Eternity so significant is how unusual the image is, and how rare the features are that it shares with the VdM image. The same applies to the unusual features that three of the other Robertet images share with tarot cards. When taken together, they are compelling evidence of an iconographic association between the images in that manuscript and the Milanese tradition of tarot trump design.

Please note that I am not suggesting that the Robertet images were copied directly from tarot cards, or even that their creator was aware that the tarot deck/game had originally been based on Petrarch's Trionfi. Rather, my interpretation is that the four Robertet images of Eternity, Time, Love, and the Wheel of Fortune must have been derived from the same general source from which the corresponding tarot cards of the Milanese tradition were derived, and that the VdM World image was therefore designed as a depiction of the Triumph of Eternity.

This is the important conclusion: the "subjects" that "overlapped" (to use Ross's terminology) between the tarot cards on the one hand and the Trionfi illustrations in manuscripts and cassoni paintings on the other, thus include not only Love, Death, Time, Chastity, and Fame, but also Eternity, with the VdM World card being a depiction of it. Coupled with a reconstruction of the evolution of the World card showing that all later World cards must have been descended from something very much like that VdM card, this leads inevitably to the conclusion that the first proto-tarot deck must have been based on Petrarch's Trionfi cycle.

5.
mikeh wrote: 02 Aug 2023, 08:39 As far as the Robertet's Eternity lady's pose being similar to that of the VdM World lady's, crowning and palm leaves are symbolic of victory, as on the Tarot de Marseille Ace of Swords, taken from a Visconti device, and only secondarily of eternity. Think of the palms of Palm Sunday. Victory fits Fame as well as Eternity. Not exactly coincidence, since we are dealing with an inherited tradition, but not necessarily copying something from the 1440s.
Your discounting of Petrarch illustrations from 1440s and 1450s Milan, precisely the time and place of two tarots there, and instead exalting as truer to Milan of that epoch a set of illustrations from ca. 1500 France, seems to me to need a lot more argument.
You are of course quite right that more argument is needed, especially in regard to the age and place of origin of the Robertet images. I admitted that in my initial post, and I plan to provide the full argument when I have the time to present it properly. But nevertheless, I think that if you read my original post carefully, and follow the links in it (which are in the form of underlined text in bold print) and look very carefully at all the images I referred to, you should be able to see the same things I have seen, and have the same insights that I had, without me having to take you through every step of it now—providing you assume for the moment that my assertion is correct, that the Robertet images were copied virtually unchanged from an Italian manuscript from the 1440s.

Consider how unusual that Robertet Eternity image is for that place and time. Consider how similar its overall appearance is to the VdM World. But consider, too, that the other early illustrations of Eternity likewise showed a seated figure with arms outstretched on either side (although normally with nothing in his hands) enthroned above a set of concentric semicircular arcs, over a landscape representing the world. Consider that it is possible to see a link extending from these conventional Eternity images to the Robertet Eternity image (with its enthroned figure with arms outstretched above a set of concentric semicircular arcs), through to the VdM World image (with its figure with arms outstretched above a semicircular arc, over a landscape representing the world). Remember also that the World card must surely have been either the highest trump or the second highest, in the earliest decks: it is very hard to explain why worldly Fame would ever occupy such a position, but very easy to see why Eternity would.

Consider also the unusual similarities between the Robertet Love, Time, and Wheel of Fortune images and the early tarot cards of the Milanese tradition. In the case of the Wheel of Fortune, I think these should be obvious. In the case of Love, the most significant feature is that he holds a long arrow like a javelin instead of firing it from his bow. As for Time, he not only holds an hourglass and walking stick (already a highly unusual way of representing Time in this period) but also wears a head covering (something virtually never present in depictions of the Triumph of Time, except those on tarot cards, where it is almost always present) and has a large object hanging from his belt in about the same position as the similarly-sized pouch of the BnF and Bolognese Old Man figures.

Consider also how very fitting is the symbolism on the VdM World card, if it depicts Eternity. It is beautifully consistent with the symbolism in all the rest of that deck, which was clearly intended to glorify Filippo Maria Visconti: it is full of his insignia and his mottoes. The Love card depicts his marriage quite literally (and quite outrageously) as the archetype of loving union. The Eternity card takes this lavish homage to its final apotheosis: in the center of the world below the arc, we see the Visconti emblem of the biscione, before a landscape that probably depicted Filippo Maria's territories, centered on Milan. The objects held by the figure of Eternity can therefore be viewed as the rewards that Filippo Maria would receive in heaven: not only eternal life (the crown), but also heavenly fame (the trumpet). In other words, Filippo Maria's fame would not perish, destroyed by Time like that of ordinary mortals, but would resound throughout heaven for all eternity.

It is breathtakingly outrageous flattery, of just the kind that Renaissance courtiers were accustomed to heaping upon their lords and masters. The lord himself could not have commissioned such a work without exposing himself to accusations of unseemly pride and arrogance, but courtiers, on the contrary, were positively expected to flatter their lord in exactly this sort of excessive manner (and regularly did so if they knew what was good for them).

Incidentally, this also helps to explain why Decembrio did not credit Filippo Maria with the invention of the Trionfi deck: because he did not invent it. If the original Eternity card was like that of the VdM deck (and this can be presumed to have been the case), then the deck could not possibly have been created by him, but rather for him, as a gift. This is made clear not only by the Eternity card but also by the Love card: it seems extremely unlikely that Filippo Maria would ever have paid good money to present his marriage as an image of perfect love, given what Decembrio tells us, but it would nevertheless have been entirely appropriate and even expected for courtiers to portray it publicly in that way. For his part, Filippo Maria would no doubt have acknowledged and accepted the flattery as his rightful due, regardless of the reality.

6.
Ross Caldwell wrote: 05 Aug 2023, 09:20 That sounds right. Eternity could be missing, whether removed or never there, but that is odd. Interesting they title the first Fama "Virtue", when it is a typical triumph of Glory, enthroned woman with Boccaccio's "homo d'oro" in her left hand (every writer on this subject mentions Dorothy Shorr's 1938 (?) explanation for this: it began as a misreading of Boccaccio's "pomo d'oro" in Glory's hand), while the second, which they label "Glory" (Ruhmes), is atypical, with a flame in her hand.
I need to make a small but important correction to what Ross said here: it is actually the first Fame image in this manuscript which is the atypical one with the flame. It is folio 33v, at the start of the text entitled "Triumphus Virtutis" (the title is at the bottom of the previous page). The second is the normal-looking one, on folio 37v, at the start of the text entitled "Triumphus Fam[a]e". The "Triumphus Virtutis" text is simply Petrarch's early incomplete draft of the Fame poem, which was often included in Trionfi manuscripts before his final version (which is presented in this ms. as the "Triumphus Fam[a]e") but it was never normally presented as a separate triumph as it is here. It is always simply the first "chapter" (capitolo) of the Fame section.

This Pesaro ms. at the ÖNB (Cod. 2649) is very interesting, but I deliberately did not mention it, because it was (and is!) liable to cause confusion... I think that this manuscript, plus some other apparently related ones (especially Mscr.Dresd.Ob.26 at the Sächsische Landesbibliothek, which was made just one year later at the same workshop as Cod. 2649, and likewise has no image for Eternity but instead a second Fame image, again presented as "Triumphus Virtutis" before the main Fame section) testifies to a confusion in the mid-15th century of essentially exactly the same nature as the one Mike has fallen prey to in our own time: I think that someone saw a Robertet-style illustration of Eternity that looked like the VdM World card, and thought that it must have been meant to represent Fame, not Eternity. So they repurposed it as an illustration of the Triumph of Fame, even though they kept the other illustration of Fame too. As a result, they ended up with two pictures for Fame and no picture for Eternity at all.

The second "Fame" image in the Dresden manuscript looks even more like it was derived from an earlier Eternity image than the ÖNB one: the supposed "Fame" figure has her right hand raised in a gesture like a religious blessing, exactly like the enthroned Christ in several early Eternity images, while in her left hand she holds what looks like the flame-in-a-vessel attribute of the theological virtue of Charity (whose association with Eternity is attested by some other early Eternity illustrations where the three theological virtues appear as minor auxiliary figures).

A couple of other manuscripts also survive that have similar surplus "Fame" images, all looking like they were derived from something like the Robertet Eternity, just like the ÖNB and Dresden ones do.

Given the presence of the winged trumpet on the VdM version of the Robertet-type Eternity, it doesn't surprise me that these Eternity images could have been confused with Fame, and Mike can take comfort from the fact that some mid-15th century Italians appear to have made the same mistake that he has made. It's an entirely understandable mistake. What does surprise me is that the allegorical figures in the Pesaro manuscripts (and also in the other manuscripts with these seemingly Eternity-based "Fame" images) do not actually bear that winged trumpet, or any other object that would unequivocally suggest Fame—and as noted above, the Dresden example actually looks much more like Eternity than Fame! This genuinely puzzles me. It looks as if the winged trumpet in one Eternity image caused someone to conclude that the Robertet-type Eternity was actually a representation of Fame, and then they went on to apply the same categorization to all other Eternity images of that type, i.e. all those that showed Eternity as a female allegorical figure seated in the sky over a landscape, with an attribute in each hand, even when those attributes no longer included a winged trumpet or anything else that would normally suggest Fame. This is the only plausible explanation for those Pesaro images that I have been able to come up with so far. And with Mike already confusing the VdM Eternity with Fame, you can probably see why I was reluctant to mention them at this stage...

Jean Robertet, Petrarca Trionfi

113
Recueil de dessins accompagnés de textes , dit Recueil Robertet Robertet, Jean (14..-1502?). Auteur du texte
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8426260f/f3.item

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8426260f/f6.item .... Love/Cupido wins aginst gods
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8426260f/f7.item .... Chastity wins against Love
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8426260f/f9.item .... Death wins against Chastity
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... f/f11.item .. Fame wins agaist Death
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... f/f13.item ,, Time wins against Fame
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... f/f15.item .. Eternity wins against Time

https://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cc53261w
Cote : Français 24461
Ancienne cote : La Vallière 44
Recueil de dessins accompagnés de textes, dit Recueil Robertet
XVIe siècle (vers 1490-1500 ; compléments vers 1515-1520)
Bourbonnais
Jean Robertet
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Robertet
automatic translated .... https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.go ... r_pto=wapp
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20674601
https://classiques-garnier.com/florimon ... et-en.html
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q42027400
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... brary_M834

Francais 594

114
Français 594.
Pétrarque, Les Triomphes, traduction rouennaise anonyme, avec le commentaire de Bernardo Lapini

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... 6/f12.item ... French heraldry
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... 6/f12.item ... Petrarca dreams of Amor
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... 6/f22.item ... Venus presents Amor
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... 6/f22.item ... All fall in Love
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f210.item ... Chastity captures Amor
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f211.item ... Chastity is victorious
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f276.item ... Death captures Chastity
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f276.item ... Death is victorious
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f364.item ... Fame captures Death
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f364.item ... Fame is victorious
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f704.item ... Time captures Fame
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f704.item ... Time is victorious
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f758.item ... Eternity captures Time
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f759.item ... Eternity is victorious

More information
https://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cc780289

Ms-5065 Petrarca Trionfi,

115
Les Triumphes de messire Françoiz Petrarque, nouvellement translatées de langaige vulgaire (add. tuscan) en françoiz

This text is rather similar to Vienna Ms 2581 Petrarca Trionfi

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https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... 8s/f4.item .... 4 heraldry

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... 8s/f8.item .... 8
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f15.item ... 15
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f18.item ... 18
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f25.item ... 25
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f30.item ... 3ß
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f35.item ... 35
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f39.item ... 39
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f42.item ... 42
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f45.item ... 45
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f49.item ... 49

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f55.item ... 55
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f61.item ... 61
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f64.item ... 64
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f66.item ... 66
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f71.item ... 71
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f75.item ... 75
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f78.item ... 78
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f82.item ... 82
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f86.item ... 86
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f90.item ... 90

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... s/f93.item ... 93
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f100.item .. 100
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f108.item .. 108
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f114.item .. 114
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f118.item .. 118
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f126.item .. 126
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f133.item .. 133
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f141.item .. 141
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f146.item .. 146
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f150.item .. 150

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f155.item .. 155
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f158.item .. 158
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f164.item .. 164
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f172.item .. 172
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f177.item .. 177
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f181.item .. 181
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f192.item .. 192
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f200.item .. 200
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f209.item .. 209
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f217.item .. 217

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f223.item .. 223
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f233.item .. 233
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f242.item .. 242
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f246.item .. 246
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f255.item .. 255
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f264.item .. 264
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f274.item .. 274
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f280.item .. 280
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f285.item .. 285
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f296.item .. 296

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f306.item .. 306
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f314.item .. 314
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f320.item .. 320
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f330.item .. 330
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f334.item .. 334
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... /f342.item .. 342 King Arthur on Avalon

Totally 56 pictures plus a heraldry painting

***************

https://archivesetmanuscrits.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cc852774
Last edited by Huck on 08 Aug 2023, 02:57, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

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Nathaniel wrote: 06 Aug 2023, 11:48 Responding to some relevant points in the discussion that unfolded since I was last here:

1.
Mike, you really need to get away from this notion that the "new world" of heaven had to be totally immobile and motionless. It is taking Petrarch's meaning far too far, and it is absurd. You seem to be suggesting that the eternal world of heaven would be populated by statues: people and animals incapable of the slightest movement. When Petrarch says he has a vision of a mondo novo, in etate immobile ed eterna, he simply means that this new world is unchanging—each day in that world would be just like the previous day, and nothing would ever pass away or perish. He doesn't mean that nothing would ever physically move! The VdM World isn't the only early depiction of Petrarch's Eternity that showed ships moving on waterways—several of the earliest Florentine illustrations of Eternity also showed ships moving on the seas of the eternal new world. There is nothing strange or inconsistent about this at all.
People and animals would be statues frozen in time if time existed. But since time does not exist, the analogy doesn't work.

I take Petrarch at his word. So did the miniaturists, when they showed ruined chariots and dead old men and horses. So does Cohen, when she contrasts the immobility of the frontal images of Eternity with the profile images of Time. Yes, I think Petrarch goes too far. It is enough for his purpose that Eternity remove the destructiveness of Time. But he wants more than that: he wants Time dead. He says:
No "shall be" or "has been," "ne'er" or "before"
Or after, filling life with doubtfulness.
....
If I may there behold the Highest Good,
And none of the harm that is poured out by Time,
And comes with Time, and disappears with Time!
Time brings anxiety and care. All that is done away with. The scene on the card is not without anxiety and care. The drama on the lake and beside it, whatever it is, is one of some moment to the personages involved. They are not simply out for an afternoon of boating on the lake: it matters to them to get to the other side. It may also matter whether the knight meets the person on the other side, Bianca Maria according to Phaeded, Agnes Maino (who lived in a red castle according to MM Filesi in an old post here), or whoever. And why would there be castles with high walls if there was no anxiety about the future? They are not grand palaces, the towers of Italian cities, or cathedrals, built to reflect someone's majesty. It is not Petrarch's Eternity, where souls have no cares for the future because there is no such thing as change.

That is not to say that the knight in the middle is not a candidate for eternal glory, if God should so judge. But the scene as a whole, including his part in it, if any, is very much in this world of care and harm. The winged trumpet held by the lady has a long history of association with Worldly Fame, from at least 1380. To suppose it suddenly means Eternal Fame is a switch that requires some clear justification from the imagery in the card. I don't see any, without reading into the image what you want to find there.
2.
Cohen's information in the appendix to Transformations of Time and Temporality is not entirely reliable. I have found several errors in it, which were mostly carried over from earlier sources. Ms. Barb.Lat.3943 was attributed to the Master of the Vitae Imperatorum (or at least his workshop) not only by Samek Ludovici and Trapp, but also by Carandente in I Trionfi nel primo Rinascimento (Turin: ERI, 1963), p. 52.
These are all rather old, over twenty years ago. Cohen is more recent. I do not hold with the idea that the latest word is the best word, but at least it puts in doubt what was said earlier, making it less definitive.
4.
As I have already made clear, I do not share Mike's excitement about ms. Barb.lat.3954. Yes, it's true that its Eternity shares a couple of elements with the Visconti-Sforza Judgment/Angel card, but certainly nothing so unusual as to indicate an important link between them. The Time illumination in Barb.lat.3954 is somewhat similar to the Old Man card, and Death has the uncommon bow and arrow of the Visconti-Sforza image, but there is nothing of any real significance beyond that. In this case, just as in the case of Barb.lat.3943, I am essentially in agreement with Ross: these features are not compelling enough to indicate anything more than the fact that the illuminations come from the same place and roughly the same era as the Lombard cards, and consequently sometimes make use of similar iconography for the same or similar subjects. Crucially, they don't mean that the Visconti-Sforza Judgment card was necessarily thought to represent Eternity. I would not rule out that possibility completely, but it seems very unlikely that all six Petrarchan Trionfi were ever present in that deck, as there is no surviving card that plausibly corresponds to Chastity. So even if the cards retained some lingering associations with Petrarch's poem cycle at that stage, it seems unlikely that the poems were still considered important or central to the game by those who designed that particular deck, and their Judgment card may simply have been a depiction of the Last Judgment, with no further meaning intended.
The orb in the hand of the Visconti-Sforza (PMB, Colleoni) is not only an attribute of Fame. It primarily symbolizes dominion, as for example in the hand of the Emperor. As such, it is a plausible substitute, befitting the lady's nobility, for the chain in the hand of the manuscript's Pudicizia (Chastity), but still a triumph over Cupidity, even if Cupid himself is not shown. Likewise wings (on the horses) do not only symbolize fame. Sainte-Geneviève Library, ms. 0965 (ca. 1520) even has wings on Cupid's horses (see image below). In one Petrarch series all the personifications have wings. Wings can symbolize the general attribute of being touched with divinity. We are dealing with ambiguous images. That is not to say that the Visconti-Sforza Charioteer is Pudicizia. It might be intended as a particular lady famous for her pudicizia (i.e. virtue appropriate to her sex). And the same for the Issy: the quintessence of womanhood. As for the Lombard ms.'s Eternity image, it is too much like the Visconti-Sforza card to discount, combined with the fact that the rest of the images in the set match the corresponding cards precisely. The only one in doubt is Fame, which either is missing from the extant PMB or parallels the card normally called Justice, which Huck argues is Fame.
The same cannot be said for the VdM World, however, because of the Robertet Eternity image. What makes the Robertet Eternity so significant is how unusual the image is, and how rare the features are that it shares with the VdM image. The same applies to the unusual features that three of the other Robertet images share with tarot cards. When taken together, they are compelling evidence of an iconographic association between the images in that manuscript and the Milanese tradition of tarot trump design.

Please note that I am not suggesting that the Robertet images were copied directly from tarot cards, or even that their creator was aware that the tarot deck/game had originally been based on Petrarch's Trionfi. Rather, my interpretation is that the four Robertet images of Eternity, Time, Love, and the Wheel of Fortune must have been derived from the same general source from which the corresponding tarot cards of the Milanese tradition were derived, and that the VdM World image was therefore designed as a depiction of the Triumph of Eternity.

Consider how unusual that Robertet Eternity image is for that place and time. Consider how similar its overall appearance is to the VdM World. But consider, too, that the other early illustrations of Eternity likewise showed a seated figure with arms outstretched on either side (although normally with nothing in his hands) enthroned above a set of concentric semicircular arcs, over a landscape representing the world. Consider that it is possible to see a link extending from these conventional Eternity images to the Robertet Eternity image (with its enthroned figure with arms outstretched above a set of concentric semicircular arcs), through to the VdM World image (with its figure with arms outstretched above a semicircular arc, over a landscape representing the world). Remember also that the World card must surely have been either the highest trump or the second highest, in the earliest decks: it is very hard to explain why worldly Fame would ever occupy such a position, but very easy to see why Eternity would.
Here what is needed is more parallels with the VdM, not parallels with "tarot cards" generally and "the Milanese tradition". The "Milanese tradition," after the VdM, whatever it is, has much in common in its imagery with that of tarot decks elsewhere, some images with one and some with another. For Eternity, there is the ChVI World, which we know got to France at some point. There are too many prior images similar enough to Robertet's to say that there must have been just one, 60 years earlier and from a different country, somehow known to him but now unfortunately lost. I am thinking especially of the ChVI World card, but also the Ferrarese and Bolognese versions. As for the arc, that is more similar to Florentine Eternity images - Pesollino, for example - than anything in Milan.

How do we know that the World card was the highest or second highest trump in the beginning? The Judgment card is high in Bologna but third highest in neighboring Ferrara. It could be similar with the World. Small changes in the order like that are commonplace. Time may well have been second to last in the VdM, then moved down because an old man is close to but not after death. Anyway, there is no law saying that worldly Fame can't be second highest if it is third highest in Petrarch. What about Time, second highest in Petrarch but before Death in all the earliest lists?
Consider also the unusual similarities between the Robertet Love, Time, and Wheel of Fortune images and the early tarot cards of the Milanese tradition. In the case of the Wheel of Fortune, I think these should be obvious. In the case of Love, the most significant feature is that he holds a long arrow like a javelin instead of firing it from his bow. As for Time, he not only holds an hourglass and walking stick (already a highly unusual way of representing Time in this period) but also wears a head covering (something virtually never present in depictions of the Triumph of Time, except those on tarot cards, where it is almost always present) and has a large object hanging from his belt in about the same position as the similarly-sized pouch of the BnF and Bolognese Old Man figures.
You are again talking about the Visconti-Sforza and/or ms. 3954, not the Modrone. Love in the Visconti-Sforza holds a javelin-like dart, as does the ms. Many Triumphs of Love in France show Cupid holding javelin-like arrows. It is probably derived from BNF Banco Raro 103 (the image just shown by Huck), a printed work (incunable) done in 1488 Venice, St. Genevieve 0965, as Turbil might be saying - a copy of 103 perhaps brought to France by Sanudo's uncle. Below, the Italian is on the left, with bound Jupiter. The French substitutes an unbound David, because Charles VIII and Louis XII styled themselves latter-day Davids, according to Turbil.
Image
imgLoveBancoRaro103StGenevieve0965SM.jpg imgLoveBancoRaro103StGenevieve0965SM.jpg Viewed 207 times 292.63 KiB
About Fortune, perhaps I miss your meaning: you seem to be saying that Robertet has one, which he doesn't. You don't even postulate one for the Modrone. We have no idea what Time looked like in the Modrone. Several Triumphs of Time have head coverings, I think 3954, but certainly Vind. 2649 (of 1459 Ferrara). And of course the Visconti-Sforza, of which several copies were made, some of which could have made it to France, if only by way of marriage alliances, the wives taking their cards with them. The same would be true for the woodcut Ferrarese and Bolognese cards and a few of the illuminations. Unfortunately, I don't know what the one of Time looked like in Banco Raro 103.

That said, I am impressed with the parallel between the Modrone Chariot card's jousting shield and the Triumph of Chastity in BnF Fr 594, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Petr ... astity.jpg, the detail of the notch, something not mentioned by Petrarch. Could someone have sketched the Modrone cards and brought the sketches to France? The other illustrations in the sequence also resemble Modrone cards - Cupid's arrow is horizontal, Death has a scythe, Fame has a trumpet. Time has the sun - support for my hypothesis about the Modrone Time card - and Eternity has lifeless horses of Time plus people rising from their graves. Thanks for calling our attention to these miniatures, Huck. An easy way to view them is to start with https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Petr ... batave.JPG and go forward clicking on the forward arrow on the right. So that's another ms. I am excited about, besides Vat.Barb.lat. 3954 (for the Visconti-Sforza) and 3943's Pudicizia and Time (for the Modrone; in contrast, its Death, Fame, and Eternity are more like the Visconti-Sforza -if "Justice" is really Fame - and 3954).
Consider also how very fitting is the symbolism on the VdM World card, if it depicts Eternity. It is beautifully consistent with the symbolism in all the rest of that deck, which was clearly intended to glorify Filippo Maria Visconti: it is full of his insignia and his mottoes. The Love card depicts his marriage quite literally (and quite outrageously) as the archetype of loving union. The Eternity card takes this lavish homage to its final apotheosis: in the center of the world below the arc, we see the Visconti emblem of the biscione, before a landscape that probably depicted Filippo Maria's territories, centered on Milan. The objects held by the figure of Eternity can therefore be viewed as the rewards that Filippo Maria would receive in heaven: not only eternal life (the crown), but also heavenly fame (the trumpet). In other words, Filippo Maria's fame would not perish, destroyed by Time like that of ordinary mortals, but would resound throughout heaven for all eternity.
Are you saying that he will be restored to his territories in heaven, or more precisely, the new earth supposedly depicted on the card? That seems absurd. Anyway, crowns don't symbolize eternal life, but rather dominion (like the orb). And winged trumpets are just fame, with wings for it travel by, which applies to worldly fame and had since at least 1380. I don't deny that the card is glorifying someone. But to say that his fame is thereby eternal is Petrarchan only in the sense of being anti-Petrarchan. Only God can decide whether someone is worthy of eternal glory - hence the next card. Finally, we don't actually know who the knight is. Filippo is one candidate, but without knowing the circumstances of the commission and the scene, we can't rule out Francesco and perhaps others. Worldly fame would be the subject in that case.
It is breathtakingly outrageous flattery, of just the kind that Renaissance courtiers were accustomed to heaping upon their lords and masters. The lord himself could not have commissioned such a work without exposing himself to accusations of unseemly pride and arrogance, but courtiers, on the contrary, were positively expected to flatter their lord in exactly this sort of excessive manner (and regularly did so if they knew what was good for them).

Incidentally, this also helps to explain why Decembrio did not credit Filippo Maria with the invention of the Trionfi deck: because he did not invent it. If the original Eternity card was like that of the VdM deck (and this can be presumed to have been the case), then the deck could not possibly have been created by him, but rather for him, as a gift. This is made clear not only by the Eternity card but also by the Love card: it seems extremely unlikely that Filippo Maria would ever have paid good money to present his marriage as an image of perfect love, given what Decembrio tells us, but it would nevertheless have been entirely appropriate and even expected for courtiers to portray it publicly in that way. For his part, Filippo Maria would no doubt have acknowledged and accepted the flattery as his rightful due, regardless of the reality.
There is a fine line between commissioning a work of flattery and merely encouraging it. I don't see why Filippo wouldn't want to present his marriage contract (the handshake) on a card: marriage doesn't necessarily imply the type of affection that leads to sex, and their relationship seems to have been cordial enough, as business partnerships go. It is good propaganda. Anyway, we don't know whose marriage is on the Love card. With those banners, it could also be Bianca of Savoy and Galeazzo II, or Francesco Sforza (Count of Pavia to-be) and Bianca Maria Visconti. Or left ambiguous. We know too little about the context, both of previous decks and this particular commission.
Last edited by mikeh on 09 Aug 2023, 10:31, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

117
I think I'm done with this discussion now. I said at the beginning that I was doubtful of the merits of attempting to present a complex argument in an abbreviated form, without laying out all the evidence in full detail, and the responses here seem to vindicate my doubts.

Ultimately I will, I hope, have the time to present the results of my research in full. Until that time, I can only suggest that you re-read more carefully what I have written in my posts here, and maybe eventually you'll see what I have been trying to show you.

You should at least be able to find the Wheel of Fortune in the Robertet manuscript, which really isn't hard to do, especially since I told you quite plainly where it is, in my first post here.

Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

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Here is BR 103 Trionfo del Tempo, from Carandente.
Image

Here are Chastity and Eternity (only in black and white, I'm afraid)
Image


BR 103 also has a Trionfo del Valore
Image
The only one Carandente doesn't show from BR 103 is the Triumph of Death. I don't have a complete description of this manuscript, so I don't know if Valore stands for Fama, or is like those others that have both Fame and Glory. But unlike them, BR 103 has an Eternità, so I'd tend to think that Valor is Fame.

Re: Petrarca Trionfi poem motifs in early Trionfi decks

119
Thanks, Ross.

Nathaniel: Thanks for engaging, more than you originally intended. Your comments have stimulated more than one of us. I had forgotten about Vat.Barb. 3954, cited by Trapp, and I had never thought of using the French illustrations as clues to lost Italian originals. I also forgot that you had called attention to Robertet's Wheel in your first recent post, so thanks for the reminder. I will be re-reading your posts and looking at more of the Trionfi illustrations. I want especially to compare the Modrone's upper figure with similar figures on various World cards and Petrarch illustrations.

Despite our polemics, we only disagree, with regard to the influence of Petrarch's Trionfi, on a few points, primarily about whether the Modrone World is a second Eternity or worldly Fame. If Eternity, then a card for worldly Fame is still needed, hence your proposed second Chariot. Other 15th century decks do seem to have two Eternities as well as, even in the Milanese Visconti-Sforza, your proposed card for Fame. If, however, the Modrone World is worldly Fame, then a second Chariot is not needed, but something is, as the Modrone is at least sixteen. I propose the Wheel of Fortune, from Boccaccio, which later decks also have. It seems to me that a second Chariot would be confusing to the players, especially if there was no clear differentiation in gender. Another point of difference may be regarding Time, which I see as possibly different in the Modrone (and earlier) than later, namely, the Sun, an alternative supported by Petrarch's poem as well as some Triumph illustrations. I suppose another alternative would be two Times, Somehow I don't like that idea, but I haven't thought it through.

Georg Pencz c1539, Nuremberg

120
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Pencz
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Pencz
automatic translation .... https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.go ... r_pto=wapp

https://www.meisterdrucke.it/stampe-d-a ... arca..html

https://www.antiquarius.it/it/piccoli-m ... stita.html
... claims to be Il Trionfi della Castita ... but it's clearly Fame with trumpets and elephants

https://patrimonioculturale.regione.fvg ... _id=540909
.... has all 6 pictures, thanks. Georg Pencz had a revolutionary biography and his Eternity looks like Jupiter.

Image