Tarot History Forum

The commonality of these images do seem to throw people off on all manner of unicorn hunts.
If we follow the probable source of the images as a set however, we can narrow down the nonsense and draw some firm conclusion.

• The earliest known cards seem to be from Italy.
• The name of the cards, Trionfi, like Petrarch's poem I Trionfi, seem to be connected to the predominant form of popular entertainment of the same era as the known beginnings of the cards — the Trionfi pageants.
• Both the cards and the pageants depicted the same allegorical figures (some of them as theatrical sets), which were commonly known by everyone, and appeared in much of the popular culture of the time.

So we have a clear link here by 1) time 2) place 3) subject matter. It would seem, to me that 15th century Italy, the popular allegorical traditions of the time — especially the traditions of the 'triumphs', would be the most significant place to look until some conflicting evidence appears.

R.A. Hendley wrote:So we have a clear link here by 1) time 2) place 3) subject matter. It would seem, to me that 15th century Italy, the popular allegorical traditions of the time — especially the traditions of the 'triumphs', would be the most significant place to look until some conflicting evidence appears.

Trimuphal pageants were not limited to 15th century Italy, they were widespread, for example see 'Enter the King' by Gordon Kipling, 'Roman Triumphs and early Modern English Culture' by Anthony Miller. There are some good online resources with primary texts too but I haven't got the links handy at the moment.

Thanks Steve. I've not yet read Kipling's study, though it's been on my Amazon.com wish list for over a year, but I see your point. However, considering that the Italian states were the heart of both the triumphal tradition, and the European allegorical tradition, and the sole source for every surviving tarot deck for the first two centuries of the games existence, are you suggesting that the Italian Triumphal tradition was not a major influence on the card game that bears its name?

R.A. Hendley wrote:Thanks Steve. I've not yet read Kipling's study, though it's been on my Amazon.com wish list for over a year, but I see your point. However, considering that the Italian states were the heart of both the triumphal tradition, and the European allegorical tradition, and the sole source for every surviving tarot deck for the first two centuries of the games existence, are you suggesting that the Italian Triumphal tradition was not a major influence on the card game that bears its name?

Well I would agree in the North Italian city-states being the point of probable origin, as that is where the pattern of distribution and extent references lead. While it may fall within the framework of an allegorical / triumphal genre, I am not sure in what manner they suggest a particularly 'Italian' triumphal or allegorical tradition as distinct from any other? There was no Italy at that point, a city state may have more allegiance to a region of northern france or spain than a neighbouring city state - are you suggesting that they reflect some sort of specific literary tradition within the contect of Italian vernacular? Petrarch maybe? There are sufficient parallels to show that they are of the same genre, but sufficient discrepancies too that would sugguest the tarot triumphi are a direct illustration of the petrachian. Which elements of trumphal, allegorical, literary or iconographic tradition is it that you suggest were not to be found outside of the region or the vernacular? Was 'Italy' the heart of the 'European allegorical tradition'? What do you mean by 'European allegorical tradition'? Particular popular allegorical tradition of the place and period was a revival of the 12th century school of Chartre's treatment of pagan myth as enveloping Christain truths, particulary but not exclusively among Christian platonists, in a similar fashion to which Plutarch created a hellenist version of the Isis / Osiris myth as a veil or envolope for Platonic philosophy and whose treatment was used as an exemplar for a similar Christain type treatment of pagan myth. Is this the type of popular allegorical tradition of the place / period you are refering too?

I'm not quite sure what your point is with the "interrogation" Steve?

My point is this -

The tarot trumps arose directly from the allegorical figures and stage sets, though not exclusive to, but popularized by the theatrical pageants, mimicked the hierarchical "trumping" aspect of the pageants, and originated in an area now called Italy sometime in the early 15th century.

If you see things differently, please state your case with out all the condescending questions, thank you.

R.A. Hendley wrote:My point is this -

The tarot trumps arose directly from the allegorical figures and stage sets, though not exclusive to, but popularized by the theatrical pageants, mimicked the hierarchical "trumping" aspect of the pageants, and originated in an area now called Italy sometime in the early 15th century.

Thanks for the clarification;) #the questions were from a genuine interest in why you percieved the allegories and triumphs as particularly Italian, which from your clarification I gather you don't.

SteveM wrote: Thanks for the clarification;) #the questions were from a genuine interest in why you percieved the allegories and triumphs as particularly Italian, which from your clarification I gather you don't.

Then my apologies sir. Espresso?

* Curiously at the medieval bestiaries the monkey and the ass as we can see on this card had a link between them.

- Both the ass (onager) and the monkey (ape),announce the equinox.
The ass when it neigh 12 times and when the monkey urinate for 7 times.

- So leaving aside LE MAT and the XXI card as the final step of the sequence,the X card it is for me the earth wheel and the XXI the celestial wheel.

-The X card is the earth wheel where the fortune (from fortis ) takes place.
So we named fortune when really is a result of ours actions.

-The XXI card is the Celestial Wheel where all contradictions of human being are diluted in the name of God s Love.

Keep looking ...

* Onager : http://bestiary.ca/beasts/beast211.htm

* Ape: http://bestiary.ca/beasts/beast148.htm

Nice addition, Eugim!