Tarot History Forum

1-Nobody is moving the crank.
2-The figures are moving the wheel in theirs moving.It s the wheel of life for me.One moves the wheel thinking that a "God " is doing it for "us"...
-So important are we ? / Are we babies that we can t see that no one is moving the crank of ours lifes ?
3-The wheel will stop when the figures there noticed that.
The figure at the top of the wheel can t do that before we noticed that.
-Surely may be he will not do nothing.Is ours election surely.
May be he change the "order" of ours "cards".
-Then we surely move "ours life crank".

Some cards depict Fortuna riding the Wheel, some depict her turning the crank on the Wheel.
I think they could be Moirae or Graeae who have a reputation as Agents of Destiny.
The Graeae have more pull for me in the Tarot de Marseille as they are Deino (Dread) Enyo (waster of cities) Pemphredo (alarm) and were dreadful to look at (sometimes with wings).
Now for you and I in the small things we can crank the handle and get it moving- but in many things the Wheel spins regardless.
I guess Fortune can give us a different hand to play- different from what we expect.
I am not so sure that God is involved- I could be a mother in the Sudan- but I am not- another is, and fortune seems out of her hands- that is for sure.
~Lorredan~

Hello Lorredan...
1-May be the answer is or has LE FORCE so the next card.The force of us to change the destiny.
2-That s why I always pointed black or white that Tarot de Marseille has a deep Christian source find it not ahead than IIII century so before the first Nicea Council.

My best as ever...

If we look at the iconography in time and place, the point of the image is not that "we" are in control, but that we are not in control... we have a choice: to place our lives in the hands of Fortune and ride her wheel, or to trust in the True God and be taken off of the false highs and oncoming lows of Fortune's Wheel. The figures on Fortunes Wheel are shown with animal features to show their stupidity for riding the wheel and trusting in Fortune.

Who turns the wheel? Fortune. Is this a good card? I doubt it; it is, I think, a warning.

medieval Carmina Burana wrote:O Fortune, like the moon of ever changing state, you are always waxing or waning; hateful life now is brutal, now pampers our feelings with its game; poverty, power, it melts them like ice.

Fate, savage and empty, you are a turning wheel, your position is uncertain, your favour is idle and always likely to disappear; covered in shadows and veiled you bear upon me too; now my back is naked through the sport of your wickedness.

The chance of prosperity and of virtue is not now mine; whether willing or not, a man is always liable for Fortune's service. At this hour without delay touch the strings! Because through luck she lays low the brave, all join with me in lamentation!

Boethius, Consolation of Philosophy wrote: know how Fortune is ever most friendly and alluring to those whom she strives to deceive, until she overwhelms them with grief beyond bearing, by deserting them when least expected … Are you trying to stay the force of her turning wheel? Ah! dull-witted mortal, if Fortune begin to stay still, she is no longer Fortune. ~

Fortuna:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortuna

Wheel of Fortune:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel_of_Fortune

roubret wrote: Who turns the wheel? Fortune. Is this a good card? I doubt it; it is, I think, a warning.

I would see this not so much as a warning, but as a reminder that certainty is not part of the human condition. That there are things beyond our control.

You say "Is this a good card?" What exactly do you mean by "good"? Do you mean "comforting"? Uncertainty is often feared and is therefore frequently uncomfortable.

The wheel can go both ways, up or down. A princess can die in a car crash. Or a model/singer can become the first lady of France.

What is interesting in the Wheel of Fortune is that, like with the Death card, there are no privileges due to rank or hierarchy or status. It is a leveller and reminds us that all, man or woman, rich or poor, are all equal in the face of the unknown. In that way, it is a rather revolutionary card, the wheel makes its own revolutions and man is sometimes just caught up in a revolution whether he approves or not of the radical changes taking place. Once the storm of the revolution is over, pieces can be picked up if there are any pieces left that are worthwhile. If not, one can follow the example of the Fool and just move on and get on with life.

roubret wrote: Who turns the wheel? Fortune. Is this a good card? I doubt it; it is, I think, a warning.

* Nobody turns the wheel.
I can t see any hand on the crank.
The figures on it do that with theirs movement.
May be they think that someone moves the crank...

nobody turns the wheel?

....hmmm... I don't agree, Eugim. Even if Fortuna is not depicted, this does not mean she is not implied in the depiction. Otherwise, it's like saying that those yellow arched 'm' that are used by a particular junk-food chain have naught to do with food as no food is there depicted [come to think of it, can the product be called food?].



Though of course, from another perspective, she's allegorical... not a person, and thus 'nobody' does indeed move the wheel ;)

I'm sure by this day and age the darn thing's been motorized!

If the figures seems to be static,if they don t suggest any motion,I could be agree with you that someone turns the wheel.
But theirs bodies seems to turning the wheel.

* Just my view JMD,nobody turns the wheel.
You re image are allegorical by concept,and very beautiful it is,but if the intention was that someone moves the crank,surely now,we can see it.
One can say : If the crank was not there you surely the figures moves the wheel...
But precisely bieng the crank there is a depiction that the figures suppose that someone moves the crank,so not them.
That is the message for me of the crank there.

Au revoir...

I suggest that there was a general effort so simplify the designs for the Tarot de Marseille. Fortune, who sometimes did appear on earlier cards such as the Visconti Sfroza:



Not only was Fortune removed, but perhaps also the fourth figure that is often shown at the bottom of the wheel was removed as well. There are of course other examples of the Wheel with other numbers of figures, but the figure of the ruler at the top of the wheel and the other three figures going down, on the bottom, and coming up seems is my personal favourite. A few other versions:

Wheel of Fortune, illumination from the Ammaestramenti degli Antichi by Bartolomeo Da San Concordio, c. 1342.


Wheel of Fortune, From Gregor Reisch, Margarite Philosophiea c. 1503


This is an amazing image from fresco circa 1470:


And this wonderful image, as shown on Michael Hurst's weblog:


and some varitions... this a modern card based on an German image from 151a:


16th century woodcut:


Isn't this lovely? It's one of my favourites, French MS. ca. 1470: