Banner

Tarot History Forum

Tarot History Forum - 600 years of history in 78 cards

Certosa Pavia

1
I stumbled about this image ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gian_Galeazzo_Visconti
... it was used in a detail at Kaplan II, page 74.

The interpretation says, that it shows Giangaleazzo and 3 sons. There was an illegitimate son, who got Pisa and Crema later. But who shall be who?
The picture was made 1490-95 according the biography of the artist (who was born 1453).
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergognone
In that time Galeazzo Maria's son was the official duke. Wouldn't it have been natural to show him as the youngest, Galeazzo Maria as his father, Filippo Maria Visconti as grandfather of Galeazzo Maria and Giangaleazzo (who started the project) as father of Filippo Maria Visconti? Leaving Francesco Sforza aside in the list of the generations?

Re: Certosa Pavia

2
I think the title of three sons is wrong.
In the book I have of the Certosa(typical tourist blurb) It says
Father Gian/Giovanni Maria has model in his hands.
The person behind him is Fillipo Maria holding his hat (By Caterina)
To his right on left of Virgin is Gian Maria.(By Caterina)
Who the youngest is I do not know and it does not say- possibly in retrospect the 13(deceased) year old Azzone by Isabelle of Valois??
No Sforza in it according to pamphlet.
~Lorredan

Re: Certosa Pavia

3
It seems both of those are wrong.


http://www.rosscaldwell.com/images/visc ... EAZZO2.JPG

From left (our left) to right, they seem to be:

Filippo Maria Visconti
Gian Galeazzo Visconti (founder)
Ludovico Sforza (who completed it)
Gian Galeazzo Maria Sforza

Just looking at it anyone can recognize Ludovico Sforza ("il Moro") as the first - dark haired - on the right.

Image


Image


Gian (Giovanni) Maria cannot be "the father" with the Church in his hands, since he had no sons, and it is clearly the founder of the Certosa, Gian Galeazzo Visconti, first Duke of Milan.

Gian Galeazzo Maria, who was technically Duke of Milan until his death on October 21, 1494, is portrayed as a light-haired youth (he died at the age of 25) -

Image


Image


Another portrait in the Certosa by Bergognone shows Francesco Sforza and - supposedly - Ludovico Sforza. The Coronation of the Virgin, where you can make the comparison -



I think the figure on the right, since he is light-haired, must not be Ludovico, however, but Gian Galeazzo II. I would suggest, therefore, that Bergognone made the more important painting of the Coronation before Gian Galeazzo's death, when he was still Duke. I don't think protocol would have allowed him to paint Ludovico in this important place while the real Duke was still alive. Note that in both paintings, the light-haired fellow is holding his hat in his hands, which suggests that whoever it is, Ludovico or Gian Galeazzo II, it is the same person in both paintings.

In the second painting, however, Ludovico is closer to the Virgin, and this painting might thus have been done after Gian Galeazzo's death in 1494.

A second possibility is that the first figure on the right is Galeazzo Maria Sforza, and the far right is Ludovico (but light-haired?).

Re: Certosa Pavia

4
If the picture with 2 persons shows correctly Francesco Sforza and Ludovico, then it might be one composition with the other, as I suggested it: Giangaleazzo I, Filippo Maria, Galeazzo Maria and Giangaleazzo II. So 6 different persons and all once duke of Milan. Missing is only the elder brother of Filippo Maria.

Re: Certosa Pavia

6
In this forum the man we call Giangaleazzo, is the man in the tourist blurbs who is referred to as Gian/Giovanni (1351-1402). While Gian Giovanni is the name he was baptised with, to differientiate him from his relative of the same name- he became known as Giangaleazzo.
So it was Giangaleazzo holding the model Church- just the confusing name and adding Maria- which is obviously wrong.(Maria is the deceased sister of Giangaleazzo, who seems to have included her name to his childrens)
So I deserve the prize wrapping at least.
~Lorredan