Tarot History Forum

Has there been, here on this forum, a discussion of the contents of the Letter To Antonio Trecho, treasurer to Sforza; in the hand of his secretary Francesco Simonetta 11th December 1450?
I cannot find one ( I am looking for more than a noting of the existence of the letter)
~Lorredan

Lorredan wrote:Has there been, here on this forum, a discussion of the contents of the Letter To Antonio Trecho, treasurer to Sforza; in the hand of his secretary Francesco Simonetta 11th December 1450?
I cannot find one ( I am looking for more than a noting of the existence of the letter)
~Lorredan

I know only of this ...
http://trionfi.com/0/e/06/

Thanks Huck!
I have a translation by Giordano Berti and it differs a little from Kaplan and I will give it here.

Antonio Trecho treasurer, We would like you, immediately on receipt of this, sent specifically by Horse, to send two packs of Triumph cards, the most beutiful you can find; and if you can't find these Triumphs, send two other packs of playing cards, again the most beautiful you can find. Make sure we have them here for Sunday, the thirteenth day of the current month.
Sincerely yours, on the eleventh day of December 1450,
Francesco Sfortia Vicecomes written by his hand, Cichus,

as partial reply about the cards on the 15th December Sforza wrote to Trecho...

We have thus received the playing cards and we are well content, but we would like you, as soon as possible, to send us the other.......

in dialect it says "tu ce mandi l'altro paro delle fructe"
which means 'Pair of Fruit' in the sense of the English "cream of the crop" or the best-sweetest example - "plums".

So does this mean Triumphs were a particular deck, known to Trecho?
He does not ask for Triumphs of the Gods for example, Or triumphs of the Virtues. It seems to be that there is one and only one sort/type.
Secondly it seems that what he asks for in Triumphs becomes his by right of purchase and that the design must belong to a producer like a illuminator/goldsmith or studio- not that he commissioned these 'Triumphs'.
~Lorredan

Well, in the documentation it's missing, what Trecho wrote, when he delivered "playing cards". For instance he might have explained, that he has no Trionfi deck, but has very nice cards "with fruits" and usual playing cards, asking if he should also send the "pair of fruits".

Also might be that "carte da jocare" must be explained by "real received Trionfi cards".

Well, indeed it seems, that between Sforza and Trecho it was clear, which sort of cards Sforza expected, but this doesn't mean, that there were no alternative Trionfi decks (but possibly not reachable in short time by Trecho).

Milan had a horrible plague in this year 1450, and the possibilities of the treasurer to fulfill Sforza's wishers might have limited by the circumstances. Sforza was in Lodi, outside of Milan.

Well I think a better translation of Latin/Italian should be got- because I read about the receiving of the cards will give "Jocare" contentment as he is not well- so as soon as possible with no problem.........
My book on early Italian dialect is not nearly exact enough.
I am presuming or speculating his son has a pet name.
I am not a specialist in this field of Translation by any stretch of the imagination, but there seems to be some descrepancy between Kaplan and what is in the dialect.
Also Kaplan says send Cards by Horse and Berti says the letter was sent by Horse (indicating a rushed request).
I will try to find someone to make sense of this letter.
I know there was a Plague wave, but the letter returned does not indicate any concern other than giving the grain to the soldiers etc. You might think he would enquire about the Plague amongst the soldiers at least.Or worry about sending his treasurer out into infected areas to find games. Oh well, the indifference of the wealthy might just explain it.
~Lorredan

"carte da jocare" should be "carte da giocare" ... the whole passages are more or less about card playing, otherwise they wouldn't be interesting to us.

Interesting...

But...

FRUCTE is a Romanian word that means fruits.

Actually in italian, the english word "fruits" is: FRUTTA (italian)

I dont know if "fructe" was a milanesse word or an old italian word to say fruits. Do you know?

*********

I supose that we think that Antonio Trecho was in Milan when recived the letters wroten by Francesco Sforza. Trecho had difficulties to find Trionfi cards in Milan. Right?

Thanks!

FRUCTE comes from the Latin FRUCTUS, just like the Romanian word (and Portuguese FRUCTA). No need to look in a Milanese dictionary reporting all the various spellings in the 15th century, if there is such a thing. It would have been in that dialect, however, as there was no such thing as the Italian language then; what became Italian is based on the Tuscan dialect, selected in the 19th century because of the illustriousness of past writings in that dialect. Latin was used in the 15th century when dialects were insufficient. To see the meanings of "fructe" it is good enough to look at the meanings of the Latin "fructus" - which is worth doing, incidentally.

The letters do not say where Trecco was, and it does not matter. He had contacts in many places, certainly Florence but surely Cremona and Brescia, among other places. They could be asked to look for triumph decks. Nor does it matter whether he asked people in Milan or even looked personally. He may have done neither, not knowing how the plague was spread or how long the source of contagion needed to be isolated. If he did look there and didn't find any, it doesn't mean anything: production and trade were disrupted in all kinds of ways. What is more important is that in 1449 Marcello could find a typical trionfi deck there. Even then, we don't know how hard it was to find one. It can be assumed that it was a respectable deck, not too cheap, just not in the class of the game of the gods.

Thank you. it's true. The "fructe" word probably existed in lombardy languaje. Prratesi wrote that in Italian the word trionfi can refer to a centerpiece with cakes or fruit. Maybe the copyist wrote Fructe because he read Trionfi and thought of a center with fruits.