Tarot History Forum

Rosanne several years ago pointed out what seemed to be a monkey on the back of the Cary Sheet's magician.


(adaptions by Michael Hurst)

As far as I can tell, no one who "sees" the monkey, dismisses it. In other words, it is now the consensus that there is a monkey there. And he is wearing a turban.

Robert and I were discussing this recently, and it occured to me that the style of the monkey's turban might be a clue to the dating of the sheet, if not its provenance.




The question is, can anyone find examples of this turban in the relevant period (late 15th century, presumably), anywhere in western Europe, and especially if there are any pictures of monkeys wearing them, or any kind of turban or hat?

(the possibilities remain that:
- there is no monkey at all
- there is a monkey, but he doesn't look like what we have reconstructed him as (e.g. perhaps his "eyes" are his nostrils), and he might therefore not be wearing a turban - it might be part of his actual head.

But - I think Michael's reconstruction above is the correct one, and therefore continue to look for a similar turban in the appropriate places (not in the Syrian Orthodox or Coptic churches, for example))

We spoke about it on the Cary Sheet Again thread - talk of the turban begins at the bottom of the page.

The nearest I've found so far is This one, of Molie Ismael, the Moorish Sultan - third image down.



Edited to add that there are other Moorish turbans further down the page above - even some monkeys (of quite the wrong era).

At the time of the discussion on AT I found several depictions.
One was this..
http://venetianred.files.wordpress.com/ ... monkey.jpg
without turban as you can see. The type of Monkey makes his hair and eyebrows look like a turban.
but I did find some from 15th Century Venice and one from a notebook (new computer since ) is one Vittore Carpaccio in paintings about Saint Ursurla. SP? There was also one from France with jewelled cloche and I have not written the artist down. I will try to find it as it was earlier than Durer. Something about holiness and apples for goodness sake.
~Lorredan

OK found one I think might help- but you need some skills to enlarge or find one of those sites that do it for you. (Which is what I did- I am no Robert with Computer skills)
Carpaccio has other monkeys- but this one I noted down.
The Story of St. Ursula, the Repatriation of the English Ambassadors, 1490-96
Monkey is sitting on steps of Pavillion on the lower right of painting.
All the hats of Carpaccio's paintings are very reminiscent of this Turban with feathers etc. I do not think I have seen such fashion details in other paintings of this time. He painted like he worked for Prada lol.
I am still looking for the french painting.

~Lorredan

OK I still cannnot find image from France but found my notebook about the time of the Monkey on AT.
Here is what it says.
Cour plenieres= which means the King held full Court on a Feast day.
Epiphany la fete des Rois.
Monkey with Jeweled Turban 1420. Conjurers and acrobats.
Hope that helps.
~Lorredan

turban-wise, there's this, p. 166: http://www.scribd.com/doc/45027523/Orie ... -Bedford-M

and a photo, late 1800's, http://www.englishheritageprints.com/tr ... 51091.html

Regardless, I feel certain that Rosanne's discovery is genuine.

Yes. Well, there's plenty of images of men in turbans from the last half of the 1400's, including famous ones by van Eyck, Bellini, and Schongauer.

Google: turbans 15th century, images.

Maybe that Magician is from Florence - if you paint his hat red and that Monkey is supposed to be a mamluk
The Venetian Doge Francesco Foscari.........
(with laughter) that would put the image somewhere around 1440-1451 Peace of Lodi?

I am sure Rosanne would be highly delighted if the Monkey was a real part of Tarot History.

~Lorredan

Well maybe....following the idea that there is a lot of underground symbols or meanings in these cards - you have Prelate Trevisan(Milan) the right flank with 4000 papal soldiers but guess who has got his back -300 Venetian soldiers and they held the bridge in that famous battle of anghiari. That is what I was laughing at. Should have explained myself.
You know the Battle was only acouple of hours long....How long did a game of tarrochino Take?
~Lorredan

A monkey with glasses and hat. Orvieto (Tuscany) 1500 ca.