Tarot History Forum

This post has developed from the Fama Sol thread ...
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=747&p=10850&hilit= ... tia#p10850

Framed Story: TEOFILO FOLENGO
CAOS DEL TRIPERUNO Dialogo de le tre etadi ... (1527)

The text contains 5 Tarocchi sonnets in part 12, that's what's usually thought to be the interesting part, and the rest is considered not appropriate.
However, the total arrangement of the text has 22 elements (given by the content page) and a 23rd for "Fame" (actually for friendly commentators). That's enough to raise curiosity, if Folengo wanted more to say with his Tarocchi sonnets than it is perceived, if one reads only just these 5 sonnets. At one place Folengo states "... so that it contains the twenty-one trumps, adding to them Fame and the Fool" (in part 12), and if one assumes, that this passage talks about the whole text, this might be a very important sentence, cause the reader gets opportunity to start to see a "higher riddle" in the arrangement.
Folengo seems to love riddle arrangements. He hides whole sentences in his poems, which you only see, when you start to read only the beginning letters of the lines.
I made an analysis of the text, comparing the content page with text, naturally only with limited energy, as my poor Italian really isn't enough to understand much.

The easiest idea would be, just to assume, that the first element of the 22 presents the Fool, the second the Magician etc. with the final element the World. So I've numbered them. And I indeed found, that the 19th element talks about "sole", the 20th element might talk of an angel called "Natura" and the 21st element is a recognizable "World" ("paradiso terrestre") ... so somehow there's a confirmation, that my idea is right, but at other places I'm not so sure. So I think about special Folengo complications, which the poet indicates with the words "Caos del Triperuno" (title), so that's not simply a mirror of the usual Tarocchi row, but a mirror as the specific poet Folengo loved to use. Actually Folengo behaves like an early James Joyce, he gives the readers something to recognize and don't makes this recognition simple. Likely he has a somehow confused Tarocchi row. If one wants to know, which Tarocchi row he used, one really has to study his text. Perhaps one finds it.
The theme are the 3 ages of man. And what follows, is just (only) my personal notebook:

***********************************

O: introduction (three ages)
1-3: Youth, whereby 1 is just a headline
4-14: middle age and "Caos", whereby 4 is just a headline
15-21: older age, whereby 15 is just a headline

The following are my notes and my text is ...
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/35799/35 ... 5799-h.htm
the content is at begin, before the text

The Tarocchi sonnets are translated here
http://www.tarotpedia.com/wiki/Caos_Del_Triperuno

Don't wonder: the 22 elements have quite a different length. Merlinus and Limerno are just other pseudonyms of Folengo himself. I'm not sure, but it sounds, if Fulico is another one. As the author (in this case Limerno) has it ...

Giove, Nettuno, Pluto d'un Saturno
ebber a sorte il ciel, il mar, l'inferno;
fulmini, denti, teste in lor governo:
tre trine insegne per tre cause fûrno.
Tre fonti, oltra le tre del mio Liburno,
nacquer d'un capo santo al sbalzo terno:
cosí Merlino, Fúlica, Limerno
si calcian d'un Teofil il coturno.
Mantoa sen ride e parla con Virgilio:
— Tu sei pastor, agricola, soldato,
perché del nòmer terno Dio s'allegra.
Ridi tu meco ancora, dolce filio,
quando che sotto un nome triplicato
sortisca una confusa mole e pegra.

The "Caos" might address the situation, that the author deals with many pseudonyms ... but my poor understanding of Italian isn't sure about it.
Later added: With "Caos" - as is explained by Paola in element "O. Dialogo de le tre etadi" - is meant the author's life with all his pseudonyms. I wonder, if "Caos" also adresses the figure Catharina = "Ca. Ur."
At another place I saw, that the author wrote "Chaos" for the usual chaos.

*******************

Expanded content with 22 elements:

0. Dialogo de le tre etadi ... Andrea's second title, Venice 1546
--- middle: first "Paola attempata — Corona giovene — Livia fanciulla" talking; Argomento Prima ... Livia (prose); Argoment Seconda ... Corona (prose); Argomento Tertia ... Paola (prose) with Merlinus (6 lines poem) and Limerno (Sonnet) and Fulica (prose).
Fulica explains:

"Fermati alquanto, lettore amantissimo. Son certo che lo exastico e sonetto di mei compagni di sopra ti parono duri e scabrosi. Non vi slungar, in guisa di rinoceronte, suso il naso, ti prego, ché 'l ladro il quale rubasse di giorno saria tantosto compreso. Quivi ci fa mistiero di scurezza e caliginosa nebbia: ma se li capoversi per tutto il nostro Caos provvidamente scegliere saperai, chiaro e limpido finalmente ti parrá lo intricato soggetto nostro. Ma solamente un bell'avviso quivi darti intendo: che totalmente sul ternario numero siamosi, per conveniente ragione, fundati. Prima tu vedi lo titolo del libro essere tre parole: Caos del triperuno. Segueno poi le tre folenghe, ovver fòliche son dette, le quali sono antiquissima insegna di casa nostra in Mantoa. E sotto specie di loro succedono le tre donne di tre etadi e di tre fogge di parentela, da le quali derivano li tre prolissi argomenti, ciascuno di loro in tre parti diviso. Noi siamo poi di tre nomi: Merlino, Limerno, Fúlica.

Li quali, cominciando il nostro Caos, in tre «selve» lo spartimo, con li soi tre sentimenti; ma lo piú autenticato al giudicio de l'ingenioso lettore dimettemo."

I repeat with explanations:

Caos del triperuno ["Tre parole de titolo"]. Segueno poi le tre folenghe [Tre folenghe (?), likely from "Folengo", the true name of the author], ovver fòliche son dette, le quali sono antiquissima insegna di casa nostra in Mantoa. E sotto specie di loro succedono le tre donne [tre donne ? = Paolo, Corona, Livia ?] di tre etadi [tre etadi = 1-3, 4-14, 15-21] e di tre fogge di parentela [Tre fogge di parentado], da le quali derivano li tre prolissi argomenti [Tre argomenti, ? 3 argomenti by Paola, Corona, Livia ?], ciascuno di loro in tre parti diviso [Tre parti d'ogni argomento]. Noi siamo poi di tre nomi: Merlino, Limerno, Fúlica [Tre parti d'ogni argomento].

Li quali, cominciando il nostro Caos, in tre «selve» lo spartimo [Tre selve], con li soi tre sentimenti [Tre allegorie]; ma lo piú autenticato al giudicio de l'ingenioso lettore dimettemo.

The donne Paola, Corona, Livia reappear in the text in the element "16. Prefazione". Merlino, Limerno and Fulica have their great scenes in the middle part (4-14), in the third part they are mentioned only in the last passage of the whole Triperuno text.
But Limerno has even the last word in the final "Fama section", where he answers to an "Alberto da Campo" ... I assume, that's a symbolic "foolish reader, who understands nothing"

******** End of Introduction
******** Begin of part I

1. Selva prima
--- long: starting in the same manner as Selva Secunda; it follows Triperuno, 2 poems ; Genio (short); Triperuno (short); Melpomene (long; Melpomene is the first of various muses, which appear, or the moment I don't understand their system); Triperuno (long); dialog in poems with Anchinia and Tecnilla (long; would be nice to know, what they stand for); Triperuno (long)
At the begin appears a heraldic sign with three birds and the letters M, L, F around the letters T ... clear, this is ...
M-erlino, L-imerno and F-ulica around Triperuno,
... which means "all 3 are one". Then there are the short signs "FE. GO." which frame the heraldic sign, and this, so I thought first, can't be anybody else than "Federico Gonfalcon", who appears in a strange way in element "14. Tumuli Galanthidis mustellae" and element "15. Selva terza", but then I realized, that my memory had a double error: The guy is named FRANCESCO GRIFALCON ... this short chapter finishes with the sentence MAGNANIMUS TEMPLUM HOC MUSIS GRIFALCO LOCAVIT
... so I stayed puzzled with my error. "Fe. GO.", what's that? Federico Gonzaga or Ferrante Gonzaga? Then I saw in the finish of element "0. Dialogo de le tre etadi" the sentence "Segueno poi le tre folenghe, ovver fòliche son dette, le quali sono antiquissima insegna di casa nostra in Mantoa." Yes indeed, Gonzaga is from Mantova. So somehow "right even in error" I noticed, that the heraldic sign was used at two other opportunities, in the elements "4. Selva secunda", but then with "CA. VR", and in element "15. Selva Secunda", then with "FR. GR." and in the latter case it indeed adresses FRancesco GRifalcon - whoever this is and whoever "CA. VR." might be. The latter likely a person named "Catharina" and I remember, that I've seen a "Tumulus Catharinae" in the text and now I detect in this context the word game "CONfodit SORS ME VSum ROBoris ERige TUScha Sphera, necis causa est non nisi nulla meae", which mutates to CONSORS MEUS ROBERTUS. Anyway, a riddle for later. But that's just in the element "12. Dialogus Secundus", where also the Tarocchi poems appear. And I've found a Gonzaga-Tarocchi context ... :-) ... which satisfies me elsewhere.

********

2. Sestina li cui capiversi dicono quella sentenzia: «Concordantia — durant — cuncta — nature — federa»
--- very short, Urania poem (the next muse, responsible for astrnomy) and the starting letters form a sentence «Concordantia — durant — cuncta — nature — federa», this letter trick reappears variously; ha, I got it, that all lines end at the six words
cielo - stelle - foco - terra - mare - pace
each appearing 6 times (the poem has 36 lines + additional 3 lines, in which all 6 words appear for 7th time)... could this address the 6 last Tarocchi cards 16-21?
cielo (Sun or Angelo) - stelle (Star) - foco (Tower) - terra (World) - mare (Moon) - pace (Angelo or Sun)
I remember, that a similar poem was made by Pico de Mirandola.

Triperuno answers with poem (19 lines)

********

3. De la puerizia ed aurea stagione
--- short: Euterpe poem (the next muse)

********* End of part I
********* Start of part II

4. Selva seconda
--- very, very short: 8 lines

********

5. Prefazione
--- very long: starts with "Or pervegnuti siamo al centro confusissimo di questo nostro Caos, lo quale ritrovasi ne la presente seconda «selva» di varie maniere d'arbori, virgulti, spine e pruni mescolatamente ripiena, cioè di prose, versi senza rime e con rime, latini, macaroneschi, dialoghi, e d'altra diversitade confusa, ma non anco sí confusa e rammeschiata che, dovendosi questo Caos con lo 'ntelletto nostro disciogliere, tutti gli elementi non subitamente sapessero al proprio lor seggio ritornarsi." Then speak ..
Triperuno 4x8 poem
Triperuno poems of different size, letter play DIVI BENEDICTI REGULA SUB QUAM IPSE MILITATVRVS IS INGREDIOR PIENTISSIMA ET EVANELICA EST
Terpsicore 1 sonnet (muse Nr. 4)
Triperuno 16x8 poem
Genio prose
Triperuno 1 Sonnet
Triperuno poems of different size, which form a Latin sentence by start letters VERUM IGNATII FLORENTINI TANTA AMBITIO VT ILLA
Lamento de Cornagianni (short) with lettter trick PVRITAS ANIMORUM
Triperuno (short) with letter trick PENITUS CORRUPTA DECID
Tumulo de Cornagianni (short) with letter trick ERIT
Triperuno (long, 31x8)

********

6. La Carossa
long: first Merlinus Cocaius (long Latin poem) with NARRATIO, ORATIO and RESPONSIO
then Triperuno with interruptions of Merlinus gives poems of different size (Italian), which form a long Latin sentence (by the start letters)
VNICA QVE FUERAT BENEDICTI REGULA SACRIS MORIBUS IGNATI - Furor (title or speaker) - STERCORE FEDA PVTRET VIRTUTES ABIERE OMMNES DII (Triperuno) VERTITI (Merlinus) SORTEM (Triperuno) NVRSINI (Merlinus) VT (Triperino) REDEAT (Merlinus) PRISTINA (Triperino) NORMA (Merlinus) PATRIS

********

7. La Matotta
short: Triperuno with Limero, Triperuno speaks 4 times in prose, Limero 3x time with sonnets. The first sonnet starts with "La Fama ... "

********

8. Dialogo primo (Limerno e Merlino).... in this chapter, as you will see, appears Fama Sol- twice
-- very long: dialog with poems

Limerno
..
..
Io dunque meritar puotei la entrata di questo santissimo giardino allora quando la fama sola d'una non pur bellissima ma prudentissima madonna mi cocque le medolle, lo cui bel nome voi ne' capoversi di questo succedente sonetto potreti conoscere, lo quale giá lo fido mio Falcone nel scorzo di quel frassino intagliando scrisse:

G loriosa madonna, il cui bel nome
I n capo de' miei versi porrò sempre,
V orrei pur io saper de quali tempre
S ian que' vostr'occhi neri ed auree chiome!
T rema ciascun in lor, mirando come
I vi sia la virtude, che distempre
N ostra natura e 'n ferro i cuori tempre,
A cciò piú di leggier lor tiri e dome.
D i calamita dunque se non sète,
I n voi di cotal pietra è forza almanco
V ivace sí, ch'ogni materia liga.
I o tragger vidi de' vostr'occhi al rete
N atura, Amor e 'l Sol di sua quadriga.
A ltra simile a voi chi vide unquanco?
[please observe letter trick GIUSTINA DIVINA; and see in element "9. Lamento di bellezza" the 7-fold cry for Justice alias Iustina]

LIMERNO

Mirabilissima è per certo di costei la beltade e cortesia, la cui fama sola (or che fa poi la presenzia?) puote di luntane contrade altrui ricondurre a vedere e contemplare la tanta lei vaghezza, la tanta lei graziosissima onestade. Laonde chiunque al primier assalto la vede, subitamente vien constretto a prorumpere in coteste simili parole:

Or non piú fama, or non piú 'l sparso grido
l'unica sua bellezza mi dichiara;
ché, mentre agli occhi nostri non fu avara,
vidila sí, che cosí ardendo i' grido:
— Per l'universo non che 'n questo lido
piú bella, accorta, pronta, onesta e rara
donna chi vide mai? quivi s'impara
nata beltá d'Amore ad esser nido.
— Però se questo e quello od altri l'ama,
maraviglia qual è? ma ben saria,
s'uom è che lei mirando non s'impetra!
Quel guardo pregno d'alta leggiadria,
quel dolce riso anco nel cuor mi chiama:
— Costei sola del ciel le grazie impetra!

********

9. Lamento di bellezza
-- very short: poem with 7x7 lines with letter trick IVSTINA IVSTINA IVSTINA IVSTINA IVSTINA IVSTINA IVSTINA
??? A cry for Justice ?
********

10. Centro di questo Caos, detto «laberinto»
-- short: Clio with poem; Triperuno with poem with letter trick SVEVERAT OBSTRICTO CLAVSTRO CELLISQUE REMOTIS OCCULTATA VRBIS LITIBUS ESSE PROCUL AT NUNC

********

11. Amore di Triperuno e Galanta
--- (short) unknown speaker with poem, in which the starting letters build a sentence INFLATO INCEDIT IVSTINA ATQUE GALERATIS OPTAT INESSE TOGIS; Triperuno answers with a sonnet, addressing Giove

********

12. Dialogo secondo (Limerno, Triperuno e Fúlica) ... here are the Tarocchi poems included
--- very long: First Limerno with a sonnet and another longer poem with letter trick HIERONIMA DIEDA HIERONIMI MERCATELLI DIVA; then a prose dialog Limerno-Triperuno, with "interruption" (short) De Somo, Limerno, Tumulus Catharinae, then Triperuno with addressing Catharina gives a poem with the coding DIVA CATHARINA O, after the interruption the dialog Limerno-Triperuno proceeds till the 5 Tarocchi poems (as given above, with verbal statements between the sonnets). Then Fulica appears, addressed as "domine pater". He asks, what they are talking about..

Fúlica. Dio vi salvi, amici miei.
Limerno. Et vos, domine pater.
Fúlica. Di che cosa ragionate voi?
Limerno. Di amore.
Fúlica. Amore spirituale?
Limerno. No, animale.
Fúlica. Sta molto bene.

Limerno. Ma, dite voi, qual importante causa vi mena in questa regione amorosa? qual convenienzia è di questi nostri muschi ed ambracani con quelli vostri rigidissimi costumi?

Fúlica. Causa non pur importante, ma importantissima, mi driccia a te, Limerno mio, acciò che con gli altri toi simili omai da questo mortal sonno vi svegliáti. Queste tre nostre regioni, Carossa, Matotta e Perissa, veramente sono uno laberinto di cento migliara di errori; né mai se non testé la ignoranzia, la sciocchezza, la soperstizia di me e mei compagni ho conosciuto, li quali avevamo la felicitade nostra riposto ne l'andar scalci, radersi il capo, portar cilizio ed altre cose assai, le quali, quantunque siano bone, fanno però lasciar le megliori. Ma non v'incresca udirmi, ché forse oggi la comune nostra salute averá principio.

Limerno. Vi ascoltaremo voluntieri: or incomenciate.

********

13. La Asinaria — Dialogo terzo (Fúlica, Limerno e Triperuno)
--- very long: It starts with a talking between Fulica, Limermo and Triperuno, in which Fulica gets 3 longer prose passages, and Triperuno has a short "Necat" poem (3x NECAT) between and a long poem at the end, which starting letters form a sentence: EGNATIUS SQVARCIALUPUS FLORENTINUS DESTRUCTOR RELIGIONIS DIVI BENEDICTI LAVRE SIBI NOMEN VINICAVIT AT LARVAM ILLUM APPELLANDUM ESSE CENSEMUS

********

14. Tumuli Galanthidis mustellae
--- short: various speakers, all rather short - Grifalco, Fulica, Merlinus, Limernus, Paulus F., Marcus C., Idem, Idem, Isidorus C. Iunonius Querela, Idem, Triperunus ad deum confitetur

********* End of part II
********* Start of part III

15. Selva terza
--- very short (poem) with special poem on the name FRANCESCO GRIFALCON ... this finishes with the sentence MAGNANIMUS TEMPLUM HOC MUSIS GRIFALCO LOCAVIT

********

16. Prefazione
--- very, very short (prose); the female figures of element "0 Dialogo de le tre etadi"

********

17. Triperuno
--- long: no speaker poem 8x8; Triperuno poem 8x8; Figlio al padre poem; Triperuno poem 9x8

********

18. Dialogo (Cristo e Triperuno)
--- middle: Christo and Triperuno in dialog, the last word has Thalia (Thalia speaks of "Sole")

********

19. Dissoluzione del Caos
--- middle: Triperuno with a 4x8 poem; "Sole" with a longer poem; Triperuno with a 9x8-poem; "Natura" with a sonnet

********

20. Dialogo (Natura e Triperuno)
--- long: Natura and Triperuno in a poem dialog and finally Triperuno "solo" with a 32x8 poem

********

21. Paradiso terrestre
--- middle: Triperuno poem 7x8, then "La Porta" with a 14-line poem, then Triperuno with a 17x8 poem

**********

after the text: A six line poem

DE AVREA VRNA QUA INCLUDITUR EUCHARISTIA

Urnula, quam gemmis auroque nitere videmus,
quaeritur angusto quid ferat illa sinu.

Haud ea, pestifero Pandorae infecta veterno,
intulit omnivagas orbe adaperta febres!

At pretium, quo non aliud pretiosius,
ipsa haec quod rerum amplexus non capit, urna capit.

[/quote]
??? is this the answer to the question "CA. VR." ???

Further: Some poems with the letter trick (from friends)
Mira Duorum Amicita: FRANCISCORUM AMORETFIDES INSOLUBILES
De Georgio Anselmo: GEORGIUS ETDELIUS ANSELMUS
Tumulus Marci: FILIUS GEORGI MARCUS

Further: Alberto da Carpo riddle
A l'integerrimo signor Alberto da Carpo
Ad un altro Alberto da Carpo di tal nome indegno
[from Limerno - he has the final word]

finish
*****************************************************

Folengo had been recently discussed in the Fama-Solo thread.

If the idea is right, that Folengo used the Tarocchi as the frame story for the much longer rest of the text, the appearance of the Tarocchi in his text gets quite another, much more important, weight, I would say.

The post proceeds in the new thread
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=759&p=10851&hilit=INGREDIOR#p10851

This thread -
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=405
- showed an English translation of the entire Chaos del Triperuno, but the links no longer work.

Perhaps it is online elsewhere now.

Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:This thread -
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=405
- showed an English translation of the entire Chaos del Triperuno, but the links no longer work.

Perhaps it is online elsewhere now.

Thank you Ross. I've been looking for that post but I couldn't find it anymore

http://www.scribd.com/doc/50190814/Total-Chaos-Oct-2010

Marco, that is a very helpful link to us who have it easier in English.

Now I can try to make sense out of Huck's post. I will open two windows, one with the post in it and the other with the translation, and try going through both concurrently.

But before doing that, I am trying to get myself up to speed on the 5 sonnets. I love seeing them in both Italian and English (as they appear in Tarotpedia and in Marco's recent link), because then I can get a better sense of how the titles were understood in Mantua (I assume) at that time. So I have some questions.

"Bagatella" is translated variously. In the first sonnet, at http://www.tarotpedia.com/wiki/Caos_Del_Triperuno it is "Juggler," and at http://www.scribd.com/doc/50190814/Total-Chaos-Oct-2010 as "Magician." In the fifth sonnet, it is "Trickster" (viewtopic.php?f=11&t=225), "Magician" (http://www.scribd.com/doc/50190814/Total-Chaos-Oct-2010), "Juggler" (Kaplan II p. 9, quoted at http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php? ... ostcount=8) and "Trifle" (http://www.tarotpedia.com/wiki/Caos_Del_Triperuno). Yet it is the same word in Italian. In the fifth sonnet, "Trickster" and "Juggler" seem incorrect, as opposed to "Trifle," because the contrast in the fifth sonnet is between fame and being of little consequence. "Magician" similarly doesn't capture the contrast in the 5th sonnet, and is too strong in the 1st, where the Bagatella is clearly a juggler. But wouldn't "Trivial Performer" work in all occurrences of the term "Bagatella" here?

I notice that "Fortezza" is treated as equivalent to "Strength" (Forza), in both the second sonnet and the fifth (see the tarotpedia link). This presents a puzzle to me. Fortitude, which I thought was an adequate translation of "Fortezza," is one of the four cardinal virtues and three cardinal moral virtues (prudence being an intellectual virtue). But Strength is not a moral or intellectual virtue. It is something needed in order to carry out the actions required by the virtues. So what did "Fortezza" mean in the context of the tarocchi, Fortitude, Strength or both?

In the third sonnet, which Kaplan says is obscure, isn't Folengo, in calling the Pope "Papesse," accusing the Pope of being unmanly? (See tarotpedia translation below.) Also, against tarotpedia, I don't see that the poet is making Fortune into the Papesse: he is saying that Fortune has put the office of St. Peter in the hands of a woman, as what the Pope has become, and directed the Emperor's anger against the French (fleur-de-lys) instead of the Turks (the Moon, i.e. crescent). And by "Marcin" doesn't he mean Venice, the city of St. Mark, and that the Pope is dangling Venice by one foot like a puppet, whereas if he let Venice go, the Emperor (eagle) would crush the Turk (Moon)? Instead, the Pope (now a Papesse) wants to join the Turks. From http://www.tarotpedia.com/wiki/Caos_Del_Triperuno:

Dear Europe, when will it happen that
that part of you, owned by the treacherous Turk,
will be brought back by the Pope or Emperor,
who have the Fortune of holding the keys in their hands?

Poor me! she is treacherous and untimely
and put in a woman's hand the higher honour (Fortune is made Papesse)
of Peter; she also keeps the Imperial anger
against the fleur-de-lis and not against the Moon.

If the pope were not a Papesse,
that Marcin keeps hanged by her foot,
I would see the Moon in the claws of the eagle.

But these popes and emperors that I have
make so that my Papesse wants to be
a Lunatic, and I want to hang myself.

Finally, I noticed on Aeclectic (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.ph ... ge=1&pp=10) a question of whether the sonnets show a divinatory use of the tarot at that early date. It seems to me that in using the term "divinatory" we have to stick to divination then, not as practiced in the 19th century. Astrology was considered divinatory, for example. It strikes me that the poet is playing on two senses of "divinatory," one which the four people use in considering the cards as indicating their "destiny," and the other which the poet uses himself.

In one sense, divination is predicting the unalterable future. When the oracle at Delphi says that Oedipus will kill his father and marry his mother, that is what is going to happen. It is hubris to think one will avoid it. (And that is precisely so, Freud says, in a psychological sense.) Even if one could avoid it (by say, inquiring closely into the history of anyone one kills of one's father's age, etc.), one won't.

The other sense of divination acknowledges the power of a person's free will, aided by knowledge of the divination, to guide one's action. For example, rulers hired astrologers to tell them what days will be favorable to their winning a battle. So they fight on the good days and try to avoid the bad ones. In this case, the diviner is giving advice, saying what will happen, more or less and in some sense, if the person does such-and-such. The diviner advises as to the right course of action, either to achieve a secular end or morally, for the sake of his soul.

It seems to me that the four people, discerning their destiny, are probably divining in something closer to the first sense. Folengo's sonnets are divination in the second sense, giving advice, saying what will happen if one keeps on doing what one is doing, saying what should happen, etc., in a way that uses the cards given to him. That's similar to what the astrologer does with the ambiguous data he interpreted, I think. It is also similar to the divinatory use of tarot as advocated by many professional tarot readers today.

Mike, thank you for your comments. I have corrected the "Marcin" verse on Tarotpedia according to your suggestion. Possibly, I will include more corrections in the next days. Please, feel free to correct the translation yourself.

I don't remember commenting before this statement by Limerno (which, by the way, is an anagram of Merlino): I will recite the corresponding sonnet, where you will be able to consider that the said triumphs, singularly assigned by chance to each sonnet, are named four times

Here is the translation of the first sonnet, where I have marked the four occurrences of each of the five trumps:

When I consider the fire (XVI) of Love (VI)
that always burns me, I say to myself:
This is not an Angel (XX) from God, but the enemy (XV)
that Justice (VIII) put out of heaven.

And someone adores it as an Angel (XX),
calling his flames (XVI) a “sweet entangle”.
I deny this, who falls in love (VI) with the Devil (XV)
never was a friend to Justice (VIII).

Loving (VI) a woman is the heat (XVI) of a black spirit (XV),
whose face looks in its eyes as an Angel (XX),
but do not be deceived: it is a fraud, not Justice (VIII).

There can be no Justice (VIII), where the cruel
archer (VI) has placed his flames (XVI),
so that Satan (XV) looks like and Angel (XX) of light.



The following is my rough "google based" translation of Alessandro Capata's nice comment about the Chaos.

Published by Giovanni Antonio da Sabbio, in Venice, in 1527 (the modern edition of reference is that by Umberto Renda, published in 1911 by Laterza in the series of "Writers of Italy"), Folengo's Chaos is divided into three “forests” (the forest is both the image of the error, confusion and chaos, and of the great mixture of the poetic genres). It is preceded by a dialogue of the three ages, in which three women of different ages discuss briefly the work. These are three real women, the author's family: his mother Paola, "elderly", his sister Corona, "young", his niece Livia, "maiden". Each of them provides her own "argument" of the work , giving three different interpretations, but always characterized by the identification of a hidden meaning. Three are also the protagonists of the work, Merlin, Fulica and Limerno, all author's alter ego, which express themselves respectively in macaronic Latin, classical Latin and vulgar. 

In the first forest Triperuno's voice, alternating with that of mythological and allegorical figures, speaks of the birth of man and of the forms of human knowledge. The liberal arts and the correlation between industry and art (in a sort of original golden age of human intellect) play an essential role. 

The second forest, which is the most extensive and intricate, is the immersion of man in the chaos of experience, whose center is a maze, in which the risk of corruption and loss of himself is more threatening. In this wilderness, Triperuno is attracted by the chimeras and fantasies of lust, rhetoric, false theology, and goes through the three kingdoms of Carossa, Matotta and Perissa, representing three different distortions of monastic life ("gluttony"  "vanity", "luxury"). 

The third forest leads Triperuno to free himself from all vain culture and mundane vices: the encounter with Christ and the gift of his heart to him lead to a "dissolution of chaos", a recognition of the goodness of nature and the achievement of an earthly paradise, which gives a contemplation of the divinity free from the deformation of science, marked by the strength of divine mercy. The anticlassical hodgepodge resolves into a renewed affirmation of religion, released from the bonds of vain earthly wisdom. 

The trinity of Chaos is not just linguistic and biographical: it provides an image of man in general and of the moments of knowledge, referring to the mystery of the Trinity itself, the supreme power of the Triune God. The Chaos, one of the most obscure and bizarre works of Italian literature, brings to the excess the medieval allegorical tradition. It can be read as a sort of path of purification, initiation and self-discovery through one's different faces, concluding with the  achievement of a true religiosity, far from all worldly attractions.

Thanks for looking at my comments, Marco; personally, I don't feel competent to correct tarotpedia on my own; I'd want your opinion first.

In the third sonnet, when I objected to the "Fortune made Papess," or "Fortuna fata Papessa," I didn't realize that this sentence was in the text. In the link you gave, it appears as a footnote, a "gloss." So did Folengo himself write these glosses, or did someone else? If Folengo, then I am wrong to object, although I still don't understand. Also, if this "gloss" was written by Folengo, then perhaps the other "glosses" to the text in this section should also be included on Tarotpedia, as Folengo's footnotes. But I really think these glosses are those of the 1911 editor, Renda, and not Folengo. It might be useful to include these glosses in the tarotpedia version, as Renda's comments. But in this case I think he is wrong. [Note added later: this paragraph is in need of much correction, which I do in a post on Dec. 11.]

And thanks for the summary of the plot of "Chaos." It is a good introduction to what I am going to post here.

I have been diligently going through Folengo using Marco's link and Huck's post. I have so far got through #11, which is just before the section with the tarocchi poems. Here are my additions to Huck.

I will use Huck's numbering of the sections. However I am not at all sure who did these divisions. They are not in the version translated online. There are in fact other divisions. For example we have "ARGUMENTO PRIMO: LIVIA" on p. 5, and likewise for the other two. And then only a few lines after the beginning of the Selva One, there is a "Prefazione"--a new one of the 22, in the edition Huck is using. There is no such division in the text that appears in Marco's links. I suspect that the divisions in Huck's links were done by the 1911 editor, Renda. while the new edition (Marco's link) removes the ones not in the original. But I don't know.

Huck's edition's "0" is pp. 1-13 of the translation. There are three explanations of three "selve" or forests, by three women, Livia, who is a girl; Corona, who is young; and Paola, who is mature (p. 2).

In general, Folengo divides up his three "selves" as childhood, youth, and maturity ("infant, youth, and man, we are one," is the summary on p. 12). The "three in one" is TRI-PER-UNO, the protagonist Triperuno.

The first explanation is by Livia. First is a life of simple childhood faith. In the second, he deviates from that faith. There is reference to a beautiful maiden on a horse, who lures him to the precipice of perdition(p. 6). In the third, he returns to his previous faith (p. 7).

In the second explanation, by Corona, there is the same division. The maiden and the horse are described: the horse is the "horse of pleasure," which seems to me a reference to the bad horse in Plato's Phaedrus. He sees her at a fork in the road; "good and decent counsel" invites him to the right; a "false enchantress" leads him to the left (p. 8). These descriptions would seem to be of the Lover and Chariot cards. Christ then leads him to the "terrestrial paradise," probably referring to the World card, as Huck observes.

The third explanation is by Paola. Here the first stage is that of study of the liberal arts (as in school). Then comes the fork in the road, whether to follow Christ or the "peripatetic theology of today," "Peripatetic" is a word used to describe Aristotelianism, and the other descriptors Paolo uses are from there, too: causality, entity, intuition, abstractive. So the evil path is now scholasticism. The third stage is the return to the simple faith of the gospels.

Then Merlino and Limerno have their say. Merlino's is a six line summary of the foregoing. "Limerno" is a pseudonym of Folengo's, under which he published his Orlinda (p. 3). Historically, there was also a "Liburnio," another poet (p. 12).The two names are an anagram of each other, as Marco notes.

Huck quotes Limerno's poem, a sonnet, p. 12 of the translation; it gives what Mantua (the founder of Mantua) said to Virgil, that we are shepherd, farmer, and soldier (p. 12). Fulica, in another quote given by Huck, then advises us to pay attention to the first letters of the lines in the poems to follow (p. 13).

the poem says that the name "Merlino" relates to "merle", meaning blackbirds, the "three blackbirds...called merles, which are the ancient coat of arms of our house in Mantua." These can be seen in Huck's edition, at "Selva Prima."

The translator says that the letters M, L, and F in the picture aree the three poets--all pseudonyms of the author, FE.GO is Federico Gonzaga, ruler of Mantua, the translator says (p. 1).

The translator says later that CA.VR, in the figure introducing the second selva, is Camillo Orsini, Captain General of the Republic of Venice; Folengo worked as tutor to his children (p. 49) in around 1526.

1. Selva prima. The "first forest" starts on p. 14. Triperuno is in a sweet place, but then gets a kick that rouses him to see a fountain, which he drinks from, as in the Myth of Er, "the drink of Lethe" (p. 19); he forgets all he knew and descends into the Chaos. He sees an old man at a doorway and a woman holding a golden scales (Old Man and Justice?) He then is wrapped in a dark tomb, where he stays for months (p. 20).

Next appear the muses. Melpemone, weeping, 12 lines (p. 20); Urania, with Pan-pipes, 2 lines (p. 21); Clio, lyre, 5 lines; then the other six in 5 lines. There follows an account of life after the Fall, in which all the animals learn from instinct; only man is helpless, his mind a blank slate. Given short shrift by Nature, he will learn from Anchinia, Industry according to the translator (from a word related to the word for sharp-wittedness) and Technilla, the latter representing the arts (technia, skill); there is a lengthy debate between the two (to p. 43).

2. Urania's poem. The first letters of the lines spell Concordantia durant cuncta nature federa," All the laws of nature remain in harmony" (p. 43). And the lines end, as Huck says:

ha, I got it, that all lines end at the six words
cielo - stelle - foco - terra - mare - pace
each appearing 6 times (the poem has 36 lines + additional 3 lines, in which all 6 words appear for 7th time)... could this address the 6 last Tarocchi cards 16-21?
cielo (Sun or Angelo) - stelle (Star) - foco (Tower) - terra (World) - mare (Moon) - pace (Angelo or Sun)
I remember, that a similar poem was made by Pico de Mirandola.

Very interesting, Huck. It would be nice to know what the Pico poem is.

Then comes the narrator's answer, 19 lines.

3. Euterpe's poem on the sweetness of childhood, pp. 45-48.

4. 2nd Selva starts p. 50. 8 lines.

5. First, the preface that Huck quotes: we are at the center of our Chaos, filled with worthless trees and brush, that is to say prose, Latin and Macaronic verse etc., all jumbled together.

Triperuno's poem starting p. 51 has the first-letter acrostic DIVI BENEDICTI REGULA SUB QUAM IPSE MILITATVRVS IS INGREDIOR PIENTISSIMA ET EVANELICA EST, "The rule of St. Benedict, under which I am now entering as a soldier, is most holy and evangelical." That presumably has to do with the author's own life at the time of writing the the work. The poem with these first letters describes his being among shepherds listening to white spirits singing Gloria, etc. He follows a star until he reaches a beautiful maiden who calls herself Alethia, i.e. Truth.

Then Terpsicore advises that he take the path of virtue. He has a vision of Mary and the baby Jesus in a stable, butalso the crown of thorns, and an angel speaking the message of God sending his Son to redeem his servant (humanity); God himself would be subject to disgrace, dishonor, etc., and finally the cross (p. 60, possible allusion to Hanged Man). There is an attack of wolves against the shepherds' lambs, and lightning (allusion to tarot Fire?) After that Tip. joins a congregation of pastors, the Benedictines, according to the translator. An old man laments the death (tarot Old Man and Death?) of their good leader Cornagianni (whom the translator, p. 63, identifies as Giovanni Cornaro the abbot of a Benedictine monastary in Padua), after which all was corrupted--led by a Florentine. The acrostic noticed by Huck, VERUM IGNATII FLORENTINI TANTA AMBITIO VT ILLA, continuing PVRITAS ANIMORUM in the Lament, then PENITUS CORRUPTA DECID and ending ERIT, means "Indeed the ambition of Ignatius the Florentine is so great that it put an end to the purity of souls" (p. 62).

So Tip. says he left the order (p. 65). He plunges into thickets, which entagle him (like the Devil's clutches?); a woman admonishes him to be strong (allusion to Strength?). It is the woman on the right side of the path, whose arrogant admonitions drive him away, into a cave, where two strong men grimace at him and drive him further. The language describing the two men compares them to Castor and Pollux, for whom just one pair of legs held suspended ("suspeso," p. 66), the weight of two persons. (That odd expression might allude to the Hanged Man.) Running away, Tip. meets the beautiful young woman, who mounts her horse while he follows (p. 67).

He comes to a clearing where elegant women tempt him to the left path, while another group stands to the right (Lover card again). A woman comes from the right carrying water in a sieve, in which none falls through (allusion to Temperance card?). She admonishes him to take the right hand path (p. 69). He starts to do so, and the two groups of women fight, tearing each other's hair. An old somber woman comes and says that the question is, which gate leads to "fama," the one leading to fortune or the other to virtue? He chooses the right. A wolf appears, frightening him. The left-hand women grab it, tear off its genital member, and suck its blood. They change into mules. The myrtle tree there changes to a woman, and the wolf to a steed. She rides off. The right hand women dance around a unicorn, after which the right hand path and women vanish. The ground shakes, and lightning flashes around him (allusion to Fire card?).

6. Carosso (corruption, p. 72; inebriation, p. 94). Merlin has a poem about sailing in the sea, which the translator says is an allusion to the Po and its cities, with the Po as vagina and the boats as phali; there is a yearning for Alexandria, associated with male homosexuality. Narration talks about the hero Baldus (from an epic of the poet's), who liberated Mantua from its despotic ruler Galofo (p. 74). Baldus became friends with Cingar, a confidence man who reformed due to Baldus (Perhaps "Cingar" was a slang term for copulation, as in the Spanish "Chingar"?) In the poem he is a descendant of Margutte, from Pulci's Morgante, who died laughing when he saw a monkey "cagante," pooping.) He has other odd friends, too. Galofo iurges Mantua's senators to have Baldus executed for his misdeeds, but senator Gonzago talks about his near-miraculous birth, strength, and after too many brawls being introduced to letters, and he reads enormous numbers of books, being especially fond of the hero Orlando. Gonzago says more, but Triperuno leaves Merlino still talking.

Second selva, Part 2. (P. 87; why doesn't this start a new numbered section in Huck's edition?) The poem is about his gluttony with muscatel, macaroni and tripe, no doubt referring to clever but pointless poetry. Trip. joins Bacchus and his retinue, and meets Merlino again, now exceedingly fat, who praises his macaronic talents.

This is where the acrostic occurs, as Huck says,

VNICA QVE FUERAT BENEDICTI REGULA SACRIS MORIBUS IGNATI - Furor (title or speaker) - STERCORE FEDA PVTRET VIRTUTES ABIERE OMMNES DII (Triperuno) VERTITI (Merlinus) SORTEM (Triperuno) NVRSINI (Merlinus) VT (Triperino) REDEAT (Merlinus) PRISTINA (Triperino) NORMA (Merlinus) PATRIS

"The rule of St. Benedict, which had been unparalleled in holy customs decays with the fetid excrement of Ignatius; all virtues have gone away; oh gods, alter the fate of the Nursini (monks) so that the pristine order of our fathers may return." (p. 87)

7. Matotto (craziness, p. 92, a possible reference to the Fool card; also, "the vanity of religious orders," translator's comment p. 72). This section title was given by Renda, according to the translator. Tip. sees a pig with its snout in a thick soup. This is where Huck says,

The first sonnet starts with "La Fama ... "

. It is delivered by a young gentlemen praises the "Madonna" for her "fama"--I presume, the pig. Trip. delivers his own sonnet to the lady; he wishes his boat could ride her sea to her port. A dove sings about desiring to find its mate, a song that pleases Trip.

8. Limerno comes and argues, in Italian, with Merlino about the relative merits of Latin and Tuscan (I think), and later, Mantua and Ferrara. Merlino's poems had been in Latin. They also speak of fama and gloria (p. 103), earthly vs heavenly, but deciding to keep to the earthly. The poem "gloriosa madonna" and the speech introducing it, both quoted by Huck,are on p. 118. The lady's name is given in the acrostic: Divine Justice, also the name of the Benedictine monastary in Padua where Fologo occasionally resided. "Her unique beauty declares her fame to me no longer" (p. 119). More lamenting. Thi section must be the Perisso (theological structure of the gospel), of which the poet informed us on p. 72.

9. Lamenta di balazza, with its acrostic "JUSTINA" 7 times, is p. 123ff.

10. 2nd Selva, part 3, the "labyrinth" starts p. 125. This would seem also to be the "Perisso" section. After Clio, Trip.'s speech (p. 126), as Huck says, has the acrostic, SVEVERAT OBSTRICTO CLAVSTRO CELLISQUE REMOTIS OCCULTATA VRBIS LITIBUS ESSE PROCUL AT NUNC. It continues (in the next section) INFLATO INCEDIT IUSTINA CUCULLO ATQUE GALARATIS OPTAT INESSE TOGIS, i.e. "Giustina used to be far away from urban quarrels, confined in a cloister and remote cells, but now she goes about with an inflated cowl and desires to be in [a pope's] ceremonial robes" (p. 126).

11. Amore di Triperuno e Galanta. Here (p. 128) is the poem with the acrostic INFLATO INCEDIT IVSTINA ATQUE GALERATIS OPTAT INESSE TOGIS, as Huck notes. But it is part of the previous acrostic. In this poem, Trip. relates how a haughty lady appeared, to whom he bowed. She is referred to as empress, "imperatrice" (p. 129). She tells him he is arranging a girl for him, one Galanta, as requested by Merlino. The "blind boy" shoots his dart into Trip.'s chest. And so begin the torments of love for Galanta, his "Laura" (the name that the Florentine Ignatius gave himself, the translator says), but a "filthy and disgusting" one, a "vile enchantress" (p. 130). He is full of "pene" (pain and penis, says the translator), where "one nail drives out another." His poem to Jove seems to be a plea to send his fire (foco, perhaps an allusion to the Fire card) against this "Larva."

I will stop here. So far the story seems to be a "fool's journey" from innocence to wisdom, in three stages. There may be allusions to various tarot cards, in a logical way corresponding to steps of the journey, but these allusions do not seem to correspond to the 12 sections of the poem (as identified by Huck) so far. Indeed, I wonder if these sections were made by the poet at all, as opposed to a later edition, since there is no indication of them in the online edition that has the English translation.

hi MikeH,

I didn't make the order, the Italian text of Gutenberg.org made it.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/35799/35 ... 5799-h.htm
.. see the content page, at the beginning. The lay-out of the following text follows this order.

Maybe we need to check the original version or the earliest reachable. I'm in a haste, just on my way to reinstall my computer system.

*********
I found ...
http://books.google.de/books?id=nyQ8AAA ... &q&f=false
... from 1546.
With a quick view I saw some differences.

Further I found the version, which is used by Gutenberg.org

http://www.archive.org/details/opereitaliane01foleuoft
... (early 20th century edition) with no detectable information about its source

Huck wrote: http://www.archive.org/details/opereitaliane01foleuoft
... (early 20th century edition) with no detectable information about its source

Volume 3 of Renda's edition of the Opere Italiane contains the information in the "Nota" on pages 268-269.

He says there are only two editions known, which he gives as 1527 and 1547 (which should be our edition on Google Books from 1546). He says the first edition has a corrupted version of the Papa Papessa Traditore etc. sonnet (p. 71v of the 1546 ed.). He gives the full version of "1547" in a footnote, which means he is primarily using the 1527 edition.

For volume 3, see -
http://www.archive.org/details/opereitaliane03foleuoft

Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:Volume 3 of Renda's edition of the Opere Italiane contains the information in the "Nota" on pages 268-269.

He says there are only two editions known, which he gives as 1527 and 1547 (which should be our edition on Google Books from 1546). He says the first edition has a corrupted version of the Papa Papessa Traditore etc. sonnet (p. 71v of the 1546 ed.). He gives the full version of "1547" in a footnote, which means he is primarily using the 1527 edition.

This sounds, as if Renda's version is reliable. The 1547 version looks rather bad - not very careful - to me. The author was dead and hadn't an eye on the production.

2. Urania's poem.[/b] The first letters of the lines spell Concordantia durant cuncta nature federa," All the laws of nature remain in harmony" (p. 43). And the lines end, as Huck says:

ha, I got it, that all lines end at the six words
cielo - stelle - foco - terra - mare - pace
each appearing 6 times (the poem has 36 lines + additional 3 lines, in which all 6 words appear for 7th time)... could this address the 6 last Tarocchi cards 16-21?
cielo (Sun or Angelo) - stelle (Star) - foco (Tower) - terra (World) - mare (Moon) - pace (Angelo or Sun)
I remember, that a similar poem was made by Pico de Mirandola.

Very interesting, Huck. It would be nice to know what the Pico poem is.

here it is ...
http://asidel.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/ ... e-volgari/
... possibly a general form

Sestina

Era ne la stagion che ‘l sommo Giove
Stende dal ciel la glorïosa mano,
Pingendo a la gran madre il vario volto,
E la riveste poi non d’ostro o d’oro,
Ma di purpurei fiori o di verd’erba,
Poi che ‘l novo anno a noi rimena il sole:

Quand’io vidi una donna emula al sole,
Fabricata per man de l’alto Giove,
Seder sotto un bel mirto sopra l’erba,
Ch’Amor et Honestà tenea per mano.
E se dritto mirai, due treccie d’oro
Facean più adorno e più leggiadro il volto:

Benché gli occhi perdean contro al suo volto,
Come perde ogni vista incontra al sole,
Ché in cigno bianco, in toro, in pioggia d’oro
Di novo convertir potrebbe Giove,
E Febo far con la zampogna in mano
Discalzo con gli armenti andar per l’erba.

Ma, lasso! ché nascoso era fra l’erba
Un fiero stral, che per ferirmi il volto
La donna prese di sua propria mano;
E s’io non mi difesi da quel sole,
Vergogna non mi fu, poscia che Giove
In cielo è tutto pien di strali d’oro.

Onde pria verde troverassi l’oro,
E primavera senza ‘ fiori e l’erba,
E sarà mesto ne l’abisso Giove,
Ch’io non porti scolpito il divin volto
Dentro al mio core, e l’uno e l’altro sole,
E quella a me tanto nemica mano.

O dolce, o santa, o leggiadretta mano,
In cui si vede insieme avorio e oro!
O humana dea, o bel terrestre sole,
Il qual non per nutrir ne i campi l’erba,
Ma per mostrar sé stesso in simil volto
Mandò fra noi qua giù l’eccelso Giove!

Ma prego Giove che non mieta in erba
Quel volto e quella man che lo stral d’oro
In noi mandò, ché ‘n cielo è assai d’un sole.

I once talked with a poet, who engaged in a very big poem, he called it a "Sonettenkranz", but it was an "expanded Sonettenkranz" ... I don't know, if he ever got ready with it. But he knew precisely, how any thousands lines he had still to do, and which specific marked forms he had to fulfill.

Der klassische Sonettenkranz besteht aus 15 Einzelsonetten, die alle dem gleichen Reimschema und Versmaß unterliegen, wobei das Zweite Sonett mit der Schlußzeile des Ersten beginnt, das Dritte mit der Schlußzeile des Zweiten und so fort bis zum Vierzehnten. Das Fünfzehnte, oder auch Meister-Sonett, faßt dann noch einmal alle 14 Schluß- bzw. Anfangszeilen in gleichbleibender Reihenfolge zusammen.

The usual Sonettenkranz should have 15x14 lines, whereby the last, the master-sonnet, has 14 lines, which dominate the other 14 sonnets.
They have occasionally rather complicated ideas, these poets.