Tarot History Forum

Right, might as well get it out of our system!

Chosson:


Conver:


And the ultimate... the recent "restoration" by Rhodes/Sanchez:


Have at it!

Hmm. This would make a great beginning to a joke:

"A man walks into a bar, and sees a nun with large penis on the front of here habit. He goes up to the nun and says, "Excuse me Sister, but do you know you have a penis on your habit?!"

The nun smiles, looks the man strait in the eye and says....."

You can add your own punch-line there folks!

Actually, I don't think it was intended to be a 'willy'. Just an unfortunate meeting of lines. The 'head', in fact seems to be part of the Papesse's headdress. Then again, it could have been some Protestant engraver's subtle message to the Catholic Church.

A rather plain explanation I'm afraid. I'm sure someone has a much more entertaining explanation involving Osiris's Fertile Phallic Gnostic Philosopher's Stone and the Gematria for 10 inches!

Hello everybody, I'm Pablo from Argentina, they forgive my unclear English, I use the Google translator.

The long time since I read about this and that I had drawn attention for quite some time already been investigated.
Has a direct correspondence with the ancient Goddesses sibyls of Attis, Mithras, Cybele and Ceres.
In the chest, between shoulder and shoulder we see a penis that crosses it. According to Eliade the formula has come to designate the initiation rites of various mysteries in the Hellenistic period. At the start of the Attis cult, for example, was usually placed under the canopy genitalia of bulls or rams on a plate, a Kerno is likely that the initiation into the cult of Attis, this vase is used to provide food, but to the sexual organs of a bull or ram to Mother. According to the story, in fact, Ovid, Attis was also tested in castration. In his case it was a gesture of self.
See also the trunk of the penis is surrounded by 16 lines.

R.A. Hendley wrote:I'm sure someone has a much more entertaining explanation involving Osiris's Fertile Phallic Gnostic Philosopher's Stone and the Gematria for 10 inches!

A connection between the popesse with the virgin Mary (perhaps in her role as emblem of the church, which she took over from the earlier ecclessia) and the well known (even then) conflation of the iconography of Mary with Isis would suggest the (artificial) penis of Osiris by which she became 'magically' impregnated. The Osiris myth and his dismemberment was of interest to Christian platonists of the period not only for the notion of the 'one becoming many', but also in relation to the 'humanisation' of God through Osiris's experience of death (and rebirth). The dismemberment of Osiris was also related (by Pico de Mirandola for example) to jacobs ladder, the stone upon which he layed his head and the ascent and descent of man.
In a culture that venerated and traded in body parts as holy relics, immersed in the somatic symbolism of wounds and milk, and the consumtption of the flesh and blood of god through the miracle of transubstantiation; the discussion of myths of dismemberment such as of Osiriris, or of Saturn by Jupiter, were not pathological, but a commonality...

It doesn't seem to be in the right location for all that, though.

debra wrote:It doesn't seem to be in the right location for all that, though.

Is there a right place for 'magical' impregnation? Was the holy spirit confined by material nature that it could only enter the womb of Mary via her vagina? (presuming that is what you mean by the right place). Where is the dove placed in images of Marie's impregnation, are they wrong becaused the dove is in the wrong place? Context brings the two together without have to portray them in a shagging embrace like pagan images of Leda and the swan...

SteveM
ps: for myself I think it is originally an accidental illusion of line, like the extra 'arm' in the pope card.

SteveM wrote:

debra wrote:It doesn't seem to be in the right location for all that, though.

ps: for myself I think it is originally an accidental illusion of line, like the extra 'arm' in the pope card.

I would tend to agree, especially considering that not only other French cards seem to be "missing" the penis, but even the Noblet doesn't seem to recognise it.

debra wrote:It doesn't seem to be in the right location for all that, though.

No need for it to be too graphic - impregnation by the word is sufficiently symbolised by the 'ploughed fields' of ink in the open book on her lap; such is sufficient, with or without penis.

It is after all a cycle of christian salvation of which the birth of the divine in human form is fundamental, even the numerical structure reflects to the symbolism of such, in the 77 generations from the fall through adam to salvation in Christ that is traditionally divided into a split of 21 generations to abraham and 56 from him to Christ - the tree (tarocchi) of life; a common element btw, of many a triumphal pageant of certain types.

The soul in exile, the wandering fool (tarocchi) will be restored to its home, to paradise, via the tree of life (tarocchi). Thus we have a play on words on two meanings of the word tarocchi, as 'tree of life' (in 77 generations from fall to salvation 21/56) and 'fool' (the soul in exile on a journey between fall and restoration).

The branch from the tree of life taken by fallen man (the verge de jacob in hand of the bateleur) comes to fruition through the salvation in Jesus Christ and our resurrection in the world to come (the rod in the hand of eve redeemed in the restoration of the world to come).

robert wrote:
missing the penis...

"He he he he he..."

"He he he he he, yeah... yeah..."

"He he... He said she's missing the penis.. he he.."

"Yeah, yeah.. Like she's a nun and can't get any... he he ..

"Coool. he he he he.."

"Yeah.. he he he.. Cool. He he he..."



.

Hi, RAH,

R.A. Hendley wrote:Actually, I don't think it was intended to be a 'willy'. Just an unfortunate meeting of lines. The 'head', in fact seems to be part of the Papesse's headdress. Then again, it could have been some Protestant engraver's subtle message to the Catholic Church. A rather plain explanation I'm afraid.

But a good one nonetheless.

Context counts, and here the context is unbridled fantasy. (Who would bridle a unicorn? Temperance.) However, in a different forum your analysis is right on track. One of the best examples of such things I've seen is one I posted here a while back, an ancient Nike with a dick quadriga.

Nike as Wine Steward
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=71&start=40#p1821

Nike's multi-swagged garment is a bit bizarre, and there is little doubt that the artist intended the four-fold phallic effect. However, it was inspired by depicting folds of fabric, and constitutes a silly visual pun... Beavis and Butthead are also right on target.

To enjoy such diversions is to be entertained even as the cardmaker might have been; to attribute greater significance to such side-shows is to forget about Tarot.

Best regards,
Michael