Tarot History Forum

From page 648 of Manley P. Hall's The Secret Teaching of All Ages.

https://imgur.com/a5EluMU

There seems to be a parallel with both the tarot and the minchiate here - in fact I've often wondered if we can say with 100% certainty that the tarot came before the minchiate, as it makes more sense (to me at least) that tarot is a refined/streamlined form of minchiate.

There's an edition of the book here

Pen

So reminiscent of Dante. I doubt if he knew how influential his writing would be.

Sorry dear friend, I need reply in Spanish first and then translate the esential...

En la Antigüedad, sobre todo desde la Eneida de Virgilio, se formó la idea del laberinto como viaje iniciático. En la Edad Media asumieron parte de este concepto y lo combinaron con la idea de laberinto como símbolo del pecado (de la confusión, de la herejía). El laberinto se convierte así en el pasaje del hombre por el mundo (que debemos despreciar en aras de un bien mayor, que es la gloria celestial). Es el caso, por ejemplo, del laberinto de Chartres. Los laberintos medievales son unicursales. Sólo tienen una dirección y la confusión se produce por las vueltas y revueltas que se deben seguir hasta llegar al centro (a Dios).


La tabla de Cebes, probablemente, fue escrita en griego hacia el siglo I d.C. Por lo que tengo entendido, comenzó a popularizarse desde principios del siglo XVI, tanto en su versión griega original, como en sus traducciones latinas.

Aunque no creo que guarde relación con el tarot (salvo en la idea de ascender, como la Divina Comedia o la Escalera de Calímaco), en parte, contribuyó al éxito de otro juego: el juego de la oca, que también es un laberinto ascendente.

**************** Microesential ^^

I dont know sure the date on which the tablet of Cebes began to be popular during the Renaissance, but I think that was from the sixteenth century.

Cebe's tablet is related to the game of goose.

Hello Pen,
the subject is very interesting, but I don't see why this should be related to the Minchiate in particular.

I translate a passage from Marcos's reply:

mmfilesi wrote: La tabla de Cebes, probablemente, fue escrita en griego hacia el siglo I d.C. Por lo que tengo entendido, comenzó a popularizarse desde principios del siglo XVI, tanto en su versión griega original, como en sus traducciones latinas.

Aunque no creo que guarde relación con el tarot (salvo en la idea de ascender, como la Divina Comedia o la Escalera de Calímaco), en parte, contribuyó al éxito de otro juego: el juego de la oca, que también es un laberinto ascendente.

The Table of Cebes was probably written in Greek in the 1st century AC. I think it began to be popular at the beginning of the XVI century, both in the original Greek version and in Latin translations.
So I do not believe that it has a relation with tarot (but for the idea of rising, as in the Divine Comedy or the Stairway [to Heaven] by Callimacus [ St. John Climacus ]). It partly contributed to the development of other games: the game of the goose, which is a rising labyrinth as well,

See also an image recently posted by Huck, illustrating "Monte Santo di Dio" (the Sacred Mountain of God, 1491).
I attach another version of the same (from "Italian Book Illustrations", Pollard, 1894).

Marco

Hello Marco and Marcos,

Marco, thanks for the translation - bablefish can be less than intelligible sometimes.

The illustration and text (like so many historical documents), made me think of the tarot because it shows man's progress through life and the same and similar fortunes and misfortunes we find in the tarot, as well as the hoped-for Place of Light and Happiness at the end. There are also the poets & geometers, science and (extra?) virtues etc., as if the creator of the tablet was drawing in as many and diverse groups of subjects that came to mind. This simply reminded me of the minchiate, rather than prompted me to propose a historical connection. It would be interesting to find the whole list of subjects for the tablet and see how many it contains.

Re. tarot/minchiate, I've often wondered if we can be 100% sure regarding which came first, and thought this post might prompt some strong opinions.

Pen

Thanks friend !

I explain the Stairway [to Heaven] by Callimacus in:

http://www.mmfilesi.com/comentarios.php ... og=07golem

More images:

http://www.mmfilesi.com/comentarios.php ... og=07golem

I think in Callimacus are the root of the Dance of Death.

********
In Mitelli we have Tarot and game of Gosip:

http://www.mmfilesi.com/comentarios.php ... iblogptero

Pen wrote:Hello Marco and Marcos,

Marco, thanks for the translation - bablefish can be less than intelligible sometimes.

The illustration and text (like so many historical documents), made me think of the tarot because it shows man's progress through life and the same and similar fortunes and misfortunes we find in the tarot, as well as the hoped-for Place of Light and Happiness at the end.

Yes, the concept is the same. If we go to the right path, get the Paradise. Is the Aeneid, is St. Augustine, Dante, Petrarch, is ... It is the Western Culture . A linear path from slaughter to salvation .

There are also the poets & geometers, science and (extra?) virtues etc.,

You know Marziano Capella?

It would be interesting to find the whole list of subjects for the tablet and see how many it contains.

I can do it, but I need time. FIRST I NEED MADE ME TRASLATION IN LATIN

This game by Mitelli is great!
Straight from Ripa to the gameboard. Amazing

Marco

Sorry Marco.

You cant link only image of my web log.... I am poor, as all the writer's , and I cant keep a lot of bandwidth. Since I had many visits, I removed the possibility of linking images only .

The Mitelli game is wonderful - thanks for the link, Marcos.

It would be interesting to find the whole list of subjects for the tablet and see how many it contains.

Marcos wrote:

I can do it, but I need time. FIRST I NEED MADE ME TRASLATION IN LATIN

We could do it in our Latin study group....

You know Marziano Capella?

I haven't studied his work, but the quote below is very seductive to one like yours truly...

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martianus_CapellaWikipedia:

And C.S. Lewis, in his The Allegory of Love, states that "the universe, which has produced the bee-orchid and the giraffe, has produced nothing stranger than Martianus Capella.

Pen