Tarot History Forum

Nathaniel wrote: 01 Nov 2024, 10:06

I'd seen the one with the panther
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentivogl ... eschlecht)

But not the casket - ~Thanks

For Museo Cospiano there is an older thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=958

Nathaniel wrote: 31 Oct 2024, 11:52 This is mainly because tarocchi is not the normal name for the traditional Bolognese tarot game, and as far as I am aware it never has been: in the area of Bologna and Ferrara, the game seems to have been called tarocco earlier and then tarocchino.
This suggests that the fresco was given the name only in recent decades, after the considerable decline of the Bolognese tarot game, which is now quite rare, far less widely played than it was in previous centuries.

As well as Montieri & Legate, we have the example from the Bolognese Comedie dell'Arte performer and poet, Bartolomeo Bocchini, who in at least two 17th century works Le pazzie de' saui, ouero Il Lambertaccio and Corona Macheronica refers to TAROCCHI Bolognese.
And in Bertaldo, published in Bologna by Lelio dalla Volpe, who was also a publisher of Mitelli, there is, not far away, four Bolognese playing TAROCCHI:

Poco lungi a tarocchi fi giucava
In partita da quattro Bolognesi

SteveM wrote: 31 Oct 2024, 13:45 here is sufficient info to see that it is not tarocchino nor primiere. It could be a 52 card deck like the F Manchesini of Roveredo.

For more information about that Rovereto deck, see: Peter Blaas, “Spielkarten Aus Alt-Tirol Teil 3: In Museen Außerhalb Tirols,” Talon 14 (2005), p 32.
Available online at: https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code ... kLdbG20JkX

There are many cards that survive from earlier decks from the same family. For some information about a few of them, you could look at my essay "Exploring the Italian Origins of the Trappola Deck" which I believe you are already familiar with. (I don't want to add a link to the online version of that essay here because I intend to publish a significantly revised version of it next year. That online version was created only to accompany the IPCS Convention this year, but in fact my presentation of it there already included the new material I plan to add to it when published.)

Nathaniel wrote: 03 Nov 2024, 15:58 For more information about that Rovereto deck, see: Peter Blaas, “Spielkarten Aus Alt-Tirol Teil 3: In Museen Außerhalb Tirols,” Talon 14 (2005), p 32.
Available online at: https://my.pcloud.com/publink/show?code ... kLdbG20JkX

Thank you so much for link and to the Talon site in general [marvellous resource!]- I have been trying to search out and identify the stamp on the Ace of Batons online for the last week now but had not been able to identify it though I had made an educated guess that it was T for Tirol, having seen ordinances from Tirol in regards to duty on playing cards from the 'circolo di Roveredo', so was heading in the right direction.

Thank You!

The Marchesani came to my attention from your notice of the Doucet collection being now online back in July.

The biographical information I have on Francesantonio and Luigi Marchesani is mainly from here :

Note - this is an automatic download of the pdf file Ester le Tipografie 2019

Marchesani appears in mulitple entries, not just under that of his own, a control F search will bring up all occurences.

https://bibcom.trento.it/content/downlo ... _ester.pdf

As well as printer/publisher Marchesani ran a bookshop. A poet of the time, whose details I can't recall at the moment, refers to his love interest hyperbolically as having "more books than Marchesani", in a book published by Marchesani.

FrancescoAntonio's son Luigi inherited the business in 1788; Luigi's son Francesco 1779-1863 took over the business from 1818 when Luigi retired [d1830] and sold it in 1859, so F could have referred to the grandson, excepting for the stamp on the Ace of Batons 1768 -1802; and also the business seems to have carried on under his father's name L. or Luigi Marchesani from examples I've seen from 1830 up until 1850 [70+ publications of the occasional type, the businesses mainstay however was in its sole privilege of publishing the nations' school textbooks which it held from 1782 to 1851, the loss of which in '51 probably led to its eventual sale in 1859].

SteveM wrote: 09 Jul 2016, 23:48

mikeh wrote:There is now another 16th century tarocchi appropriati that SteveM found and identified as such (given that the author does not) in a recent book in English (published May 2016). See http://forum.tarothistory.com/viewtopic ... 104#p17004. Many, but not all, of the trumps are identified by name, but enough to show that it is in the B order. It is c. 1520s, making it perhaps the earliest known work of this type specifically from Venice.

Having been in touch with Linda Carroll I can confirm the list is complete:

“Ciasuna in capo havea varie corone / si come in uso fu nel tempo antico / d’imperatorj ala trionfal stagione.”

“Di Dandoli Cecilia asay benigna / veniva secondo lordine triomphale / portando seco la superba insegna.”

The ladies in their triumphal procession carry their crowns with the insignia of:

Mondo: Isabeta Diedo*
Giustitia: Paola Venier
Angelo: Isabetta Barbarigo
Sole: Cecilia Dandolo
Luna: Andriana Pesaro
Stella: Lucretia Venier
Foco: Elena Zane
Diavolo: Maria Caravello
Morte: little Quirini
Traditore: Marieta Capello
Tempo: Lucieta Soranza
Rota: Marina Emo
Forteza: Fontana di Barozi
Amore: Bianca Grimani
Caro Triompha;: Laureta Foscari
Temperantia: Maria Lion
Papa: Maria da Leze
Imperator: Isabeta Venier
Papessa: Marieta Bibbiena
Imperatrice: Hieronima Venier
Bagatela: Helena Zen
Mato: Laura Cocho

In the poem the Ladies come ashore by boat and in a triumphal procession, like those of the emperors of antiquity, surround the sleeping poet, each having their superb insignia upon their crowns. The poem is in Canonici Ital.36 in the Bodleian, fol. 49-53. Most folio's in the collection are dated 1520, but this is the date the collection was begun and not necessarily that in which the copyist made entries. The copyist is though to be Stefano Magno. I have passed what further information I have on to Ross and introduced him to Linda.

Some of these Venetian Ladies also appear in the Tarocchi Appropriati of the Troilo Pomeran. Triomphi de Pomeran da Cittadela composti sopra li terrocchi in laude delle famose gentil donne di Vinegia. 1534.

Nathaniel has kindly made Linda Carrol's complete transcription of the poem available. The following lines:

E maraviglia presi che ridute
havevano sopra le corone o chiome
imagine dj certe oscure e brute
Et sottoscrito havea numerj e nome.

Are of interest in that, in this Venetian tarocchi appropriati, the trump figures/images were conceived and presented as having associated numbers and names, apparently actually written beneath the images represented on the women's crowns/hair.