Tarot History Forum

The information I get about bridge is that the precedence is based on alphabetical order. If so, it is not likely to be of Italian origin, since the words are different.

Yesterday I read about a tarocchi game in which Swords were the second highest suit, after the trumps.But now I can't find where I read it.

mikeh wrote: 08 Oct 2025, 11:36 Yesterday I read about a tarocchi game in which Swords were the second highest suit, after the trumps.But now I can't find where I read it.

Perhaps it was in the same book that the Swiss variant of tarot (with three players) that I mentioned yesterday? From La Maison Academique contenant les Jeux, 1659:

Variant V: La Rigueur - A "Forced Triumph" with Espée Supremacy

Core Concept:
The fourteen cards of Espée (Swords) - King, Queen, Knight, Jack, and pip cards - are collectively called la rigueur. They function as dominant trumps, outranking the other suits (Batons, Coupes, Deniers).

Gameplay Rules:
If Batons, Coupes, or Deniers are led and you cannot follow suit, you must play a card from la rigueur (Espée), which wins the trick.

If a Triumph (trump) is led and you hold one, you must play them; the highest card wins.

The Fool is worth five points in scoring and serves as an excuse.

Original text:
"Ce ieu se ioüe encore d'vneautre maniere, c'est à sçauoir que les quatorze cartes, Roy, Reine, Cheualier, Valet, & le reste d'espée, on les appelle la rigueur, & emporte les autres Triomphes de bastons, couppes, & deniers, & se ioüe comme à la Triomphe forcée; c'est à dire, n'ayant point de la carte que l'on vous ioüe de deniers, bastons, ou coupes, vous ietterez de la rigueur, & emporterez: mais si on vous iette d'vne autre Triomphe, & que vous en ayez, vous estes obligé d'en ietter, & alors la plus haute l'emporte, le Fou marque cinq & sert d'excuse"

https://www.tarock.info/maison_academique.htm

Yes, of course. Thanks.

The information I get about bridge is that the precedence is based on alphabetical order.

Bridge has a bidding system and the ranking of the 4 suits is used in this bidding system.
https://www.pagat.com/auctionwhist/bridge.html

The German playing card world has also a ranking of the 4 suits and it is used for bidding in the game of Skat.

It is plausible, that the English playing card world took French and German influences in the development of their suit system, England was late.
So somehow the English suits are modified copies.
However: Skat developed early in 19th century, so possibly later than the many English Bridge variants. Possibly Skat developed fom English ideas, but it will be difficult to prove this.

Looking at your link, https://www.pagat.com/auctionwhist/bridge.html, I see:

For the purpose of bidding the possible trump suits rank as follows: no trumps (highest), spades, hearts, diamonds, clubs (lowest).

That is in accord with English alphabetical order, described as such at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_card_by_suit.

Yes, in bidding, an important qualification, since early tarot games had no bidding and so no reason to rank suits.

Skat had a ranking of suits, yes, and different from that in bridge, according to the website just given, from low to high:

Some German card games like Skat use the following order: diamonds, hearts, spades and clubs.

That website also gives other orders of suits in other games. None have any relation to tarot that I can see.

According to Dummett and McLeod (vol. 2, p. 530), Skat was invented around 1815 by members of the Brommesche Tarok-Gesellschaft in Altenburg. The bidding principles came from Ombre, they say, a game that originated in Spain around the middle of the 17th century. Bidding in tarot games comes from Ombre, too, as the name Tarocc-Ombre testifies, mid-18th century. Looking online, I cannot find any ranking of suits in the bidding of Ombre or Tarocc-Ombre.

Bridge, earliest reference 1886, seems to derive from Whist. Bridge was possibly invented by Russians in Constantinople or British soldiers in Crimea, according to Wikipedia. Bidding in Whist is seen first in Boston Whist, around the time of the American Revolution, perhaps begun there but quickly known in France. Trump order (Wikipedia on Boston - card game)

First, Diamonds; next Hearts; then Clubs; and lowest of all, Spades.

Whether the inventors of Bridge knew Boston Whist I cannot tell. The alphabetical order might have been to help the memory, for beginning English-speaking players. Anyway, no relation to tarot.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%E2%80%99Hombre

German article to the L'hombre Game .. it points to an article of Depaulis in 1987, which gives a relation between bidding system and later Tarot rules.

Thierry Depaulis (1987). "Ombre et Lumière. Un Peu de Lumiére sur L'hombre (1)" in The Playing-Card Bd. XV, Nr. 4, Mai 1987. ISSN 0305-2133. S. 101–110.

English Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ombre

IT shall have existed as a 4-player-game at the end of 16th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taroc_l%27Hombre
This is a version which connects Tarot and Ombre.