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Re: Is the Bologna cartomancy sheet really pre-1750?

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Yes, that is the paper I had in mind. My own meagre contributions can be found here (in 3 parts):
https://traditionaltarot.wordpress.com/ ... d-the-law/
There is little in the way of systematic details, with one exception, which deals with a piquet deck.

I had not seen the previous posts on d'Argenson, which I will address more fully at a later date. The family was quite extensive and influential, and the gentleman in question was indeed a Freemason, as the Bossu archives show (the dates can only correspond to Antoine-René): https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b ... f102.image

mikeh wrote: 23 Sep 2025, 08:09
Ronan wrote,
People did get arrested for fortune-telling in France at the time; Will Pooley's paper has a lot of detail about this, and I've translated a few items from the Revolutionary period as well.
By "Will Pooley's paper" I assume you mean that at https://academic.oup.com/fh/article/37/ ... ogin=false. It is of interest for showing how influential Etteilla's followers were in the years after 1785, especially in the 19th century. Besides the continual republication of Etteilla's deck, with some modification of the images but not its keywords, there was the "Petit Etteilla" for the piquet deck, and for tarot the ca. 1838 book by "Julia Orsini" (really the publisher Simon Blocquel) based on the "dictionnaire synonymique" of de la Salette, a student of Etteilla's, which also went through several editions. What would be of more interest to the present discussion is tarot readings pre-1785, of which Ross Caldwell reports just one instance, in Marseille. I would be interested in seeing your examples from the revolutionary period, assuming they are based on a system as opposed to someone's "intuition" and not written after the events the fortune-tellers "predicted". There were other systems besides Etteilla's, at least for the ordinary deck, for example that of Paulmy d'Argenson, published in 1779. Given that he was a professional diplomat (in Venice during the 1760s), it is quite likely that he was also a Mason.

Re: Is the Bologna cartomancy sheet really pre-1750?

32
mikeh wrote: 23 Sep 2025, 08:09 Why is it a stretch to suggest that Etteilla might have been afraid of divulging a Masonic source, or that his source was ultimately Masonic? It was a secret society, and a lower-level member might well not have known what would have gotten him into trouble, and been anxious lest his name be mentioned. De Gebelin and de Mellet did not get into trouble, to be sure, but de Gebelin was a very high-ranking Mason. There is much in common between those two and Etteilla regarding ordinary cards of the Piquet deck (despite Etteilla's put-down, which is something occultists typically did with their predecessors, witness Levi and Waite), but not enough that the 1781 book would have been his only source, or vice versa. Those two Masons seem proof enough of a Masonic interest in Etteilla-style cartomancy. The similarity between the handwriting in the BUB document about Freemasonry and the BUB cartomancy document is further support. I am not saying that Masons would have invented Etteilla's system, let me be clear - I have no idea - but they surely would have at least been interested in whatever systems or practices existed, in hopes of finding some connection to their own hermeticism if nothing else. I cannot imagine that de Gebelin and de Mellet would have been isolated cases. That they were interested in Etteilla's work does not negate that they also did work of their own, and in a similar vein.
There are a number of issues with the assumptions here. On my blog, on the article 'Isis of the Tarot,' I have a note that reads as follows:

"The idea of an esoteric interpretation of the Tarot deck hinges essentially on de Mellet’s essay, which differs significantly in style and substance from that of Court. Court’s essay does not at all resemble a coherent presentation such as might be found in contemporary Masonic documents on analogous subjects, while de Mellet’s text is somewhat closer to what French Freemasonry calls “Boards” [Fr. planches]. Although conventional Masonic history holds that such talks were not given prior to the 19th century, some written records of “Boards” from Court’s lodge have been discovered recently, proving that they were in fact given in the 1780s in those very circles. Whether de Mellet’s essay is the product of such a presentation is another matter entirely. "

(Links: https://www.nos-colonnes.com/en/blogs/o ... reemasonry
https://www.fm-mag.fr/article/tradition ... oeurs-2663 )

Jean-Marie Lhôte also notes this textual aspect in his edition of Court's work. Aside from that, there has been practically no discussion of the matter from this perspective.

As to Court being a high-ranking Mason and somehow above the rules and immune to punishment (whatever they may be), this fails to take into account the very real fact that he wrote nothing concerning his Masonic activities. The differences in interpretation of the Tarot cards between Court and de Mellet more or less confirms the idea that they were engaged in free research, and not a systematic doctrinal exposition of some secret truth. The inclusion of these essays in Le Monde Primitif - an openly published work - also bolsters this argument. Tying both of the foregoing propositions together, in the same article, I note:

"This is all the more evident if we refer to the solemn engagement demanded of members of the very strict lodge of the Nine Sisters, namely, “to never reveal what would be entrusted to them.” (Louis Amiable, Une loge maçonnique d’avant 1789 : la loge des Neuf Sœurs, p. 35.) Moreover, as R. W. Weisberger observes, “In deciding against taking notes, Gébelin and other Secretaries of the Nine Sisters evidently wished to preserve the secret character of the lodge and unfortunately have provided historians with no information about the inner organizational workings and the cultural operations of this Masonic learned society.” (‘Parisian Masonry, the Lodge of the Nine Sisters, & the French Enlightenment’, Heredom, Volume 10, 2002, p. 171.) This argues against the idea that Court was deliberately and openly spreading esoteric knowledge previously kept secret."

De Mellet's take is more ambiguous, again, noted by Lhôte.

As to Etteilla, this is to overlook the profuse name-dropping, appeals to authority, and obfuscation that that author, someone who thrived on publicity of all kinds, indulged in. That said, I agree with your final statements, Etteilla did evoke some curiosity in Masonic circles, since he was invited to their symposium. I've written about this before. Yet it seems to me that we are dealing with a sort of mutually-fuelling mystification, whereby Masonic groups interested in what would later become known as "occultism" sought to gather information (and books) on all manner of things weird and wonderful - including nascent cartomancy. Etteilla then capitalised on this legitimisation, as it were, with the results we know.

This is all the clearer when we consider, for example, the cases of General Rainsford and Charles Geille de Bonrecueil, both high-ranking Freemasons who developed an interest in Tarot, among other things. Both were serious bibliophiles and collectors of arcane manuscripts, and neither mention any pre-Etteilla cartomantic sources, at least not to the best of my knowledge.

Re: Is the Bologna cartomancy sheet really pre-1750?

33
Well, I was trying to think of a reason why Etteilla would make up Alexis Piemontese. I see now that protecting a Masonic source against charges of violating secrecy does not reflect reality. He still might have been protecting a Masonic source, since they were interested in such things, but not necessarily. All kinds of people would have walked into his print-reselling shop. It was probably just someone who didn't want their name mentioned. I don't think he just made it all up on his own.

I don't know anything about Charles Geille de Bonrecueil and tarot. Say more, when you get a chance.

Re: Is the Bologna cartomancy sheet really pre-1750?

34
mikeh wrote: 30 Sep 2025, 13:33 Well, I was trying to think of a reason why Etteilla would make up Alexis Piemontese. I see now that protecting a Masonic source against charges of violating secrecy does not reflect reality. He still might have been protecting a Masonic source, since they were interested in such things, but not necessarily. All kinds of people would have walked into his print-reselling shop. It was probably just someone who didn't want their name mentioned. I don't think he just made it all up on his own.

I don't know anything about Charles Geille de Bonrecueil and tarot. Say more, when you get a chance.
The real question, I suppose, is whether Etteilla's unknown Italian reflects an existing - or even supposed - cartomantic tradition of Italian extraction. Framed in this manner, the identity of this Italian, if he existed, becomes a secondary concern.

Geille de Bonrecueil is mentioned in DDD somewhere, in the chapter on Etteilla's posterity. He was similar to Rainsford in many respects; very much a "joiner", member of just about every Masonic rite going, bibliophile and collector of books, cards and manuscripts, and very interested in divinatory systems and occultism.

To date, little work has been done on this unusual character - no more than Rainsford - with the exception of Robert Amadou's articles from the 80s, which were the source for DDD, and a couple of articles (including a recent one) by Pierre Mollier.

Again, this is a subject to return to in due course.

Re: Is the Bologna cartomancy sheet really pre-1750?

35
Thanks for telling me where I could read about de Bonrecueil. I notice from DDD (Wicked Pack of Cards), pp. 109-110, that there was some concern for secrecy around him - not about Masonic matters, but about membership in a society devoted to esoteric matters. In around 1786 in Lyon he founds a society of "unknown philosophers" called "Temple philosophique du Soleil". In 1790 de la Salette joins that society, by mail, and tells Etteilla about it. He receives a letter of reproach for so doing, as he had sworn not to tell anyone.

Analyzing Etteilla's meanings in relation to the Bologna document, it has seemed likely to me that the two are related. See my essat at https://bolognacartomancyetteilla.blogspot.com/. But going from Italy to France or the reverse? The difficulty is that the Bologna cartomancy document is so close in time to Etteilla and related events in France, with sufficient travel of esotericists between the two countries, that it could have gone either way.

One possibility that recently occurred to me was to see whether in France the series of meanings in Cups and Coins makes more sense going from Ace to Ten or the reversed, as in France those two suits did not have the reversed trick-taking order that they had in Italy. If they made more sense in reverse order, while the other two suits made more sense the other way, that might suggest that the meanings were of Italian origin. That is why a publication of a cartomancy booklet in French showing such reversal in relation to the Flemish tarot was of interest to me (viewtopic.php?p=27803#p27803. Etteilla, of course, was not so considerate as to reverse the order in his presentation. But perhaps it is still there in the meanings. That would be very hard to show, however, especially since in the Piquet deck that Etteilla first used so many of the number cards are left out - and likewise the Tarocchino deck in Bologna, not only that, but slightly different ones in the two places.

With tarot, there would be a certain presumption that Italian cartomancy would have been first, because the suits themselves were seen as Italian-style. However, Etteilla's initial presentation was with the Piquet deck, which used French suits.