Tarot History Forum

Thanks, Phaeded. It's a pleasure to meet you, by the way. I've been reading your recent post in this thread for days. I'm having difficulty from the first few lines, and after that, everything seems more complicated. I'll keep reading and I'll surely understand. At the beginning, you mention Ross. It seems that either you or Ross think that the deck purchased in 1440 by Giusto in Florence had the same structure and cards as the Visconti Modrone deck (Cary Yale), created in Milan around 1442. I'm having trouble imagining that assumption. Do I understand correctly? If you make that comparison, whether with arguments or not, I can imagine it to understand the text correctly. Regarding the 1440 battle, I liked your theory that Giusto wanted Malatesta to be on the side of Florence. I'm having trouble combining that hypothesis with the hypothesis about the celebration of the 1440 battle through the deck. Well, you say you accept both ideas. That is, the deck was meant to celebrate a victory and please Malatesta. Did I understand correctly? Giusto thought Malatesta was pleased with the victory in Florence in 1440. Okay. I hope I'm understanding correctly, and I'll continue studying your post.

Magic Moon wrote: 04 Jul 2025, 22:08 At the beginning, you mention Ross. It seems that either you or Ross think that the deck purchased in 1440 by Giusto in Florence had the same structure and cards as the Visconti Modrone deck (Cary Yale), created in Milan around 1442. I'm having trouble imagining that assumption. Do I understand correctly?

Not me. I assume that Giusto Giusti's set of naibi a trionfi was structured like a standard tarot that we would recognize, with 22 trumps, 16 court cards, and 40 numeral cards. I take Filippo Maria's Visconti di Modrone to be his response to the Florentine model, grander in conception and more luxurious in execution.

Ross, thanks for the clarification.

Phaeded, I think I've finally understood your last post. I don't fully understand it, but I'll settle for what I grasp. I'll focus on what I understand and what interests me. You say that the Angel of Judgment letter in Florence had a flag of the Pope (the keys of St. Peter) and a flag of Florence (the fleur-de-lis, which is the same as saying a lily) on the trumpets. I suppose that letter, nor any text with those flags, survives. That is, making that assumption. It's interesting, and perhaps you're right. Or perhaps the flags had other emblems on that letter from Florence. Perhaps the Medici coat of arms with balls was already in use by 1440.

On the other hand, Phaeded say that the Sforza fountain came from the Sforza family, not the Visconti. It's possible. I don't know the origin of the Sforza fountain. There is a fountain preserved in the Castello Sforzesco, but it could be from after the restoration of 1450. By the way, I don't know when that restoration ended, nor do I know when the plague of 1450 ended. Huck says that during that plague, people played cards more because they couldn't work, but I don't know if this is accepted or if it's just Huck's assumption. The Sforza fountain seems to be related to the fountain of love, which is a metaphor for the divine origin of love that flows between people. However, I couldn't find any information about the Sforza fountain.


**********

Huck

Now I remembered another curious detail. Huck suggested that the two dark-skinned altar boys accompanying the Pope from the deck of Charles VI could represent the two sons of Lorenzo de Medici the Magnificent, who became Popes but hadn't yet been born in 1463. Therefore, I suppose that Huck's observation is old and no longer makes sense today. I guess Huck thought about that before dating the Charles VI gavel to 1463.