Tarot History Forum

Steven, you translated ....
17. DANGER
DANGER of mighty flames comes from a spark:
See Caesar struck down in the Senate hall
By two — though he'd once fled the wrath of Sulla.

for

Pericul de gran focho una favilla
Porta: ecco Cesar morto nel senato
Da doi; e fuggi già il furor de Scilla.

Porta might be perhaps Portia ...

mikeh wrote: 23 Jun 2025, 02:26 I still disagree with you about the Faith tercet. Let me try one more time to persuade you....

My problem at the moment is that I am at that stage where the more I think on it the more I confuse myself, lol. I would love to have an Italian speakers opinion on it, preferably one with some knowledge of modern and archaic linguistics. It's a shame Marco no longer visits us here. But until such time as an Italian speaker with some linguistic expertise tells us different, I have changed it to:

FAITH unwavering had Sofonisba,
In Massinissa, who promised her the poison
If she were forced to follow the triumph.

Otherwise, the only thing I wish could be improved is the line "To clear her name, she took her life in shame". Boiardo is more compact: "She took her life to purge her fama." The word "purge" implies something that needs purging, i.e. her shame. And what she is doing is restoring her honor. You have adroitly combined the two with "clear her name ... in shame." I just wish there was a compact way of saying it, such as "restore her honor" and "purge her shame", but implying both. Unfortunately, I can't think of anything.[

How about:

STRENGTH of spirit made Lucretia’s death a grace:
To purge the stain of shame, she took her life,
And cast a net of vengeance in its place,
A warning to all who prize their name and honour.

She took her life to purify her lasting name (honour, glory) ?

There are two other things that are in more serious need of fixing. One is the numbering. That is Viti, not Boiardo. And even Viti does not use the word "zero".
Another thing is the "Excuse" sonnet. The final sonnet that you translated is not Boiardo's; it is Viti's. He says explicitly that he is rewriting the sonnet.

I have removed the zero and noted that the numbering is not in Boairdo but in Viti, but have retained it for ease of reference.

Boiardo's sonnet is something else, which we see at the very end of http://www.dominiopublico.gov.br/downlo ... 000122.pdf. Actually, he has two of them. Perhaps you could have a go at translating it.

I have changed the Sonneto Excuso with the Boiardo original with a couple of notes regarding Viti's rewrite, based on the version at IntraText as the pdf link above is not working for me at the moment. I will take a look at it if/when I can download it.

I al;so changed the title from "The Excuse" to "My Excuse" with in brackets below (An apologetic defence of the game)

Huck wrote: 23 Jun 2025, 10:18 Steven, you translated ....
17. DANGER
DANGER of mighty flames comes from a spark:
See Caesar struck down in the Senate hall
By two — though he'd once fled the wrath of Sulla.

for

Pericul de gran focho una favilla
Porta: ecco Cesar morto nel senato
Da doi; e fuggi già il furor de Scilla.

Porta might be perhaps Portia ...

Thank Huck — It’s always worth checking for alternate readings, in this case, I’m confident Porta is the verb brings — not the name Portia. The line parses as:

DANGER of great fire one spark
Brings:

“A spark brings (or, carries) the danger of a great fire”

Let me know if anything else jumps out!

Huck wrote: 23 Jun 2025, 09:20 Nice, that you have so much fun with the humble translation problems of the Boiardo Tarocchi poem.
But you've overlooked the following post. I explain the context.
MikeH recently claimed that the Boiardo Tarocchi poem was made in the 1470s, possibly even in the 1460s. I don't remember where, but I saw it. For Steven I found the same position in the year 2016.

I think, that these positions nonsense.

Hi Huck,

Sorry for the delay in responding — I hadn’t overlooked your post. While you make some plausible arguments, I’m not yet convinced by them, and my position remains unchanged: I still regard Boiardo’s tarot poem as an early work.

As I’ve pointed out before (in 2016, I believe?), and as MikeH has recently reiterated, your claim that the theme of defending or praising women over men only became fashionable after 1484 is mistaken. This cannot serve as a reliable basis for dating Boiardo’s work so narrowly. Such themes were already circulating much earlier.

I agree that the wedding of Lucrezia d’Este and Roberti’s court appointment are both plausible contexts for the presentation of a courtly game like Boiardo’s tarot. However, as MikeH noted, we also have earlier occasions — such as the 1473 wedding of Ercole and Eleanor — which align just as well with Boiardo’s position at court and with the poem’s themes, and therefore offer an equally plausible context.

Your observations on the artistic parallels between Roberti’s paintings and Boiardo’s poem are well made, but they do not establish a direct connection between the two. You place too much emphasis on iconographic matches that, while suggestive, are not as strong as you claim. They reflect a broader courtly interest in classical virtue and exempla — an interest that was well-established in Ferrara from the 1460s onward and cannot be used to fix the poem’s date to a specific event or commission.

As yet, no direct link has been demonstrated between Roberti and Boiardo’s tarot poem or deck. The argument rests on circumstantial associations rather than documentary evidence. The proposed correlation between the 1487 wedding, the court’s artistic environment, and the poem’s creation remains speculative. No extant source ties the poem specifically to that occasion.

Moreover, as MikeH pointed out, your case doesn’t engage with the earlier proposed datings of Boiardo’s poem — notably the 1460s–70s — which are grounded in linguistic, stylistic, and manuscript evidence.

So while your proposal is certainly worth considering, it remains circumstantial — and not a strong enough foundation on which to dismiss the earlier dating as nonsense.

SteveM wrote,

But until such time as an Italian speaker with some linguistic expertise tells us different, I have changed it to:

FAITH unwavering had Sofonisba,
In Massinissa, who promised her the poison
If she were forced to follow the triumph.

Yes, I agree, about the Italian speaker - as long as he or she was willing to examine Livy as well. In what you have, I don't think there should be a comma after Sofonisba. In your edit of the earlier post, you translated "a" as "to". I think "in" is better, as above.

SteveM wrote,

How about:

STRENGTH of spirit made Lucretia’s death a grace:
To purge the stain of shame, she took her life,
And cast a net of vengeance in its place,
A warning to all who prize their name and honour.

She took her life to purify her lasting name (honour, glory) ?

The version in the quatrain leaves out the "fama" aspect. The other one has it, but "purify her lasting name" etc. is an odd expression of unclear meaning. Perhaps:

She took her life to purge [the stain of shame from] her lasting glory.

Perhaps one can understand "purging one's glory" on the model of "purging one's intestines" - which also is odd, but I think is the expression for a cleansing of the bowels. How does one speak of purging in English. All I can think of is, for example, Stalin's purging the Communist Party of suspected traitors. On that model, it would be:

She took her life to purge her lasting glory [of the stain of shame].

Well, I don't know. I need more examples.

Hello

There is another web where I found the Boiardo poem text also:
http://trahorfatis.pbworks.com/w/page/2 ... iardoIndex

And here are the 45 love poems by Boiardo that are structuraly studied about the number 22 (it is: 22+1+22=45):
http://a.trionfi.eu/p/atest.txt

In #6 Mikeh put a text that mention: "Capitoli del giuoco dei tarocchi".
This title is in Amazon as a book (Venice, 1523) here:
https://www.amazon.es/Tarocchi-capitoli ... B0BT88SCTJ

There, Amazon say (english translation):
"Although it is not possible to establish with certainty the date of its first publication, it was certainly printed by the learned doctor from Urbino Pier Antonio Viti (Solerti) in Venice in 1523, about thirty years after the author's death. Closely linked to the court, the lyrics served to poetically illustrate the eighty cards of a painted deck in which the main suits were inspired by the "four passions of the lord's soul", namely darts (love), vases (hope), eyes (jealousy), whips (fear); Boiardo made a tercet correspond to each card, except the first and the last, which were intended for a sonnet".

Italian-original text in Amazon (the same text):
"Anche se non è possibile stabilirne con certezza la data di prima pubblicazione, fu certamente stampata dal dotto medico urbinate Pier Antonio Viti (Solerti) a Venezia nel 1523, circa trent’anni dopo la morte dell’autore. Strettamente legate alla corte, le liriche servirono a illustrare poeticamente le ottanta carte di un mazzo dipinto in cui i semi principali si ispiravano alle "quattro passioni dell'anima signore", ovvero dardi (amore), vasi (speranza), occhi (gelosia), scudisci (timore); Boiardo fece corrispondere una terzina ad ogni carta, salvo la prima e l'ultima, cui era destinato un sonetto".

We have spreaders who call Boiardo's poem "Tarocchi" that interests us and that we intend to date. We know that it was published for the first five years after Boiardo died. It seems that Viti's commentary and Viti's barajs are prior to the year 1500 but I do not know a precise date of the baraja that was printed (without triumphs but with verses by Boiardo written in the naipes). We know that Boiardo did not publish his poem but possibly gave it as a gift or read it to the public. the theory behind the reading in public can be read or quizzed creatively by reading the proposal given in 1478 by the story of Lucrecia. the first publication of the poem was produced in 1523 in Venice. I thought that the poem was published this year in a book that contained more poems by other authors from Ferrara. However, the Amazon text shown says that it was published in 1523 by Hizo Viti. no if Amazon is misunderstood and mixes things up or if you misinformed me when I studied this time. Amazon lists this title for publication in 1523. I thought that the title "Tarocchi" for this poem was used in a book by Angelo Solerti in Boloña in 1894. This book was about Boiardo's poems but it wasn't titled "Tarocchi". This title "Tarocchi" was the title of the Boiardo poem when it was included in this book by Solerti, which also includes the commentary by Viti. Indeed, I imagine that the Amazon publication is based on this book by Solerti, which explains why the Amazon text mentions Viti. I would like to know if Viti really was the one who published this poem by Boiardo in 1523 or this is an Amazon error. I have the answer: Viti died (30 years old) in 1500. He did not publish anything in 1523.

I have no knowledge of the use of the title "Tarocchi" for this poem by Boiardo before Solerti's book of 1894 but I quizzed at some time or in 1523 the poem by Boiardo by the title "Tarocchi". It is clear that the title "Tarocchi" was used for this poem by Boiardo in 1894 for the first time but the quiz was not the first time. Ultimately, I want to clarify possible confusions regarding the title of the poem and the publications that have arisen. Amazon reads that in 1523 the poem was called "Capitoli del giuoco dei tarocchie". The text published by Mikeh makes you understand that the poem was created with the title "Capitoli del giuoco dei tarocchi". It's confusing to use a modern title when we mention the creation of a poem that still didn't have that title.

And I see that Amazon mentions 80 cards of the box. I think Viti added two cards to Boiardo's structure but the poem does not contain 80 cards, so I want to record it. Boiardo's poem makes you understand that the story imagined or known by Boiardo lasts 78 cards. It is important to differentiate between Boiardo's poem, Viti's commentary and the story that was inspired by Viti's commentary. If the Tarot box was there when Viti came out in the commentary, it was so useful that I mentioned it. I didn't mention it and we must accept that the tarot existed but we want to create a box of triumphs different from the tarot, taking inspiration from Boiardo's poem, which contains triumphs different from the Tarot. no wonder why no triumphs of the Baraja de Viti were preserved in the year 1500 (?). I suppose the designer didn't create triumph cards for this purpose. quizzes no queria trabajar mas. Other three tarots with mythological triumphs have apparently different characters from the Viti commentary: Sola Busca, Leber, Leopoldo Cicognara's collection.

The Amazon text we saw mentions Viti and places Solerti in the parenthesis. I understand that this is an error. They weren't the same person.

I can't find the publisher of this book in Amazon but a customer mentions Marketplace. Another customer says there's a mistake in the Amazon description because Boiardo didn't write "Orlando innamorato." In short, don't believe anything Amazon says...

..... 80 cards of the box ....

The Boiardo Tarocchi poem has 80 poems, 2 sonetts (14 lines) and 78 tercets (3 lines).

https://www.jstor.org/stable/26558281
The intro speaks of the year 1479 and the politcal engagement of Eleanore d'Aragon in the Pazzi war.
In the footnotes W.L. Gundersheimer is mentioned.

W.L. Gundersheimer brought up the thesis of a stronger feminism in Ferrara as before. According this "women are better than men" against an earlier feminism, which claimed, that "women can be as good as men". W. L. Gundersheimer wrote 1980 (there are other authors in the same field with the same name Gundersheimer).
The climax of this development is the text of Goggio, who wrote 1487-1490 for Eleanore d'Aragon (as far I understood it). Short after the Boiardo Tarocchi poem.

If you look through the 22 tercets of the trump-suit with some critical view, you can see, that the male protagonists suffer at their own stupidity and the female persons get the more clever parts.

Trump 1 Lazyness

L'ocio Sardanapallo occisoso in piume
Tenne, e in lascive concubine e gola,
Tanto che del regnar perse il costume.
English translation
Lazyness kept Sardanapalus idle between feathers,
Lustful concubines and banquet,
For so long that he lost the habit of reigning.

The Taugenichts, the youthful idiot - male

Trump 2 - Fatica (Effort)
Fatica fece Hyppolita, che sola
De le amazone merito corona:
E in Scithia e in Gretia anchor suo nome vola.
English translation
Hyppolita endured such efforts, that she is the only
Of the amazons who is crowned by merit:
And her name still flies in Scythia and in Greece.

Superwoman, wonderful - female

Trump 3 - Desio (Desire)
Desio accese Actheon de una persona
Celeste, si che in cervo fu converso:
Perho troppo alto l'hom desio non pona.
English translation
Actheon was inflamed of love for an heavenly
Person, so much that he was transformed in deer:
So a man should not put his desire too high.

The poor animal - male

Trump 4 - Ragion (Reason)
Ragion fe’ Laura del fanciul perverso
Cupìdo trionfar, ché mai non torse
Occhio da la virtù né il piè in traverso.
English translation
Reason made Laura triumph over the perverted
Child Cupidus, because she never moved
Her eye from virtue nor misplaced her foot.

Laura triumph - female .... Cupido perverso - male
.... and so on

Here is the 1893 book:

https://books.google.com.tr/books?id=Ty ... J&pg=PA313

SteveM wrote: 24 Jun 2025, 08:54 Here is the 1893 book:

https://books.google.com.tr/books?id=Ty ... J&pg=PA313

.... the Tarocchi poem starts at page 313 and is finished at page 338