Tarot History Forum

Magic Moon wrote: 26 May 2025, 18:45 Huck, where do you think that Sola Busca was created? Where do you think was in these moment the Lucca Tarot sequence that you see in Sola Busca?

The origin I see in Rome in connection to the Roman Accademy, which took some influence of a game, which developed very early in Lucca (I think of the year 1369, cause emperor Karl IV was in this year in Lucca) .

mikeh wrote: 27 May 2025, 12:31

How was the Roman Academy involved? What is your source?

Most of the 22 trump figures look like Romans. Nabucadnezar not. Mato not, Falco not. Perhaps also a few others not.

Joannes says that the game of cards was introduced very recently. 1369 is not very close to 1377. And Johannes' fifth suit is no different from the other four, i.e. with number cards, King, Ober, Unter. Very unlike the SB

.
1369 is closer to 1377 as the year 1300.
We don't know, how the 5th suit did looked and we don't know how the other 4 looked. Johannes made a short one-sentence statement.
Yes, the SB is a complete deck and the Johannes-5-suit-deck is a sentence.

For Alfonso being a member of the Roman Academy, you need a source, too. I don't see it in Wikipedia. Also, is that the same Roman Academy as in 1369? What makes you think that their members kept up the tradition of whatever game it was in 1369?

I didn't say, that Alfonso was a member of the Roman accademia. I said, that at least one member was in Ferrara in the 1490s. I don't remember the name in the moment. As I said, it is curious, that Wikipedia has only 3 articles to this term "Accademia Romana" and this are a Russian, a German and a Spanish.

I would not trust that 1491 reference to the "princesses" (and Alfonso) visiting Venice. It sounds too much like the 1493 visit with a wrong year. In any case, the connection to Venice is very tenuous: a Milanese-Ferrara double wedding in Ferrara is followed by a visit to Venice. That does not seem to me enough to warrant commissioning a deck referencing Venice in connection with that wedding.

I also remember another statement with "1491" relative short after the wedding. I don't remember, where this info came from, I don't claim, that I'm perfect..

When you say "a present," do you mean a gift from someone in Venice? Who? Someone who also belonged to the Roman Academy? If from Alfonso to someone else, what does he have to do with Venice? A mere visit isn't enough. There are also the "M.S." initials in the deck. Surely that would be someone in the wedding.

The present is perhaps the fact with the "year ...x... after the foundation of the city Venice" (or similar) as an inscription on a playing card.

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Ercole d'Este - Savonarola ?????
Alfonso d'Este - Savonarola ?????

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older Alfonso d'Este ... is that a flat nose?

Alfonso d'Este had in the year 1491 the proud age of 15 years. Perhaps the painter found it a good idea to let him look more powerful than in reality.

If it was an Este wedding, you'd expect some coats of arms of the bride and groom. But the only recognizable heraldry is Venier, although Gnaccolini finds the possibility of Sanudo as well (Marino's mother's and father's families).

mikeh wrote: 28 May 2025, 22:54 Baccho (XIV) and Ace of Swords for sure, probably the Ace of Batons. To be clear: I am talking about the painted cards, the ones with the year from the founding of Venice painted on. Sanudo is hypothesized for the Aces of Cups and Coins. Search "Venier" on this Forum for the documentation.

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Do you have a source for Sabellicus as the source for the 1491 account? I see that he was a member of the Roman Academy, too.

30 November 1406 to 4 July 1415 Gregory XII Gregorius Duodecimus Angelo Correr Venice, Italy
4 July 1415 to 11 November 1417 Sede vacante (interregnum)
11 November 1417 to 20 February 1431 Martin V Martinus Quintus Oddone Colonna Rome, Italy
3 March 1431 to 23 February 1447 Eugene IV, O.S.A. Eugenius Quartus Gabriele Condulmer Venice, Italy
6 March 1447 to 24 March 1455 Nicholas V, O.P. Nicolaus Quintus Tommaso Parentucelli Sarzana, Liguria, Italy
8 April 1455 to 6 August 1458 Callixtus III Callistus Tertius Alfonso de Borgia Xàtiva, València, Spain
19 August 1458 to 15 August 1464 Pius II Pius Secundus Enea Silvio Piccolomini Siena, Italy
30 August 1464 to 26 July 1471 Paul II Paulus Secundus Pietro Barbo Venice, Italy
9 August 1471 to 12 August 1484 Sixtus IV, O.F.M. Xystus Quartus Francesco della Rovere Savona, Italy

One other question: I still don't understand how you link that Roman Academy, which didn't exist until around 1450, with Charles IV and Lucca.

Alla morte di Castruccio la città cade in un periodo di anarchia che la vede soggiacere al dominio dei Visconti e successivamente al governo di Giovanni dell'Agnello, doge della Repubblica di Pisa. Riottenuta la libertà nel 1370 per intervento dell'imperatore Carlo IV[13], Lucca si dette un governo repubblicano e con un'accorta politica estera tornò a conoscere una notevole fama in Europa grazie ai suoi banchieri e al commercio della seta. L'imperatore Carlo IV concesse alla città anche la possibilità di dotarsi di uno studium generale, ma una vera e propria università lucchese non entrerà in funzione prima del 1787.
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After Castruccio's death, the city fell into a period of anarchy which saw it succumb to the dominion of the Visconti and subsequently to the government of Giovanni dell'Agnello, doge of the Republic of Pisa. Having regained its freedom in 1370 through the intervention of the emperor Charles IV[13], Lucca gave itself a republican government and with a shrewd foreign policy it regained considerable fame in Europe thanks to its bankers and the silk trade. The emperor Charles IV also granted the city the possibility of equipping itself with a studium generale, but a real university of Lucca did not come into operation before 1787.

In 1314, internal discord allowed Uguccione della Faggiuola of Pisa to make himself lord of Lucca. The Lucchesi expelled him two years later, and handed over the city to another condottiero, Castruccio Castracani, under whose rule it became a leading state in central Italy. Lucca rivalled Florence until Castracani's death in 1328. On 22 and 23 September 1325, in the battle of Altopascio, Castracani defeated Florence's Guelphs. For this he was nominated by Louis IV the Bavarian to become duke of Lucca. Castracani's tomb is in the church of San Francesco. His biography is Machiavelli's third famous book on political rule.
Occupied by the troops of Louis of Bavaria, the city was sold to a rich Genoese, Gherardino Spinola, then seized by John, king of Bohemia. Pawned to the Rossi of Parma, by them it was ceded to Mastino II della Scala of Verona, sold to the Florentines, surrendered to the Pisans, and then nominally liberated by the emperor Charles IV and governed by his vicar.
..... Lucca managed, at first as a democracy, and after 1628 as an oligarchy, to maintain its independence alongside of Venice and Genoa, and painted the word Libertas on its banner until the French Revolution in 1789.

Doch bereits im Jahr darauf verstießen die Luccheser den durch seinen Sieg zu einflussreich gewordenen Uguccione della Faggiola und übergaben die Stadt an Castruccio Castracani, unter dessen geschickter Tyrannei sie für kurze Zeit bis zu seinem Tod 1328 – sein Grab befindet sich in der Kirche San Francesco – die führende Stadt Italiens wurde.
Von den Truppen Ludwigs des Bayern besetzt, an den reichen Genueser Gheradino Spinola verkauft, vom böhmischen König Johann besetzt, an die Rossi aus Parma verpfändet, von denen an Mastino della Scala aus Verona abgetreten, an die Florentiner verkauft, an die Pisaner übergeben, nominell befreit von Kaiser Karl IV. und von seinen Vikaren, Marquard von Randeck und seinem Neffen Walther von Hochschlitz, regiert,[4] gelang es Lucca, ab 1369 zuerst als Demokratie, nach 1628 als patrizisch-aristokratische Oligarchie, seine Unabhängigkeit als Stadtrepublik neben Venedig und Genua zu behaupten. Bis zur Französischen Revolution schrieb es das Wort Libertas auf seine Fahnen.
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But just the following year, the Lucchese expelled Uguccione della Faggiola, who had become too influential thanks to his victory, and handed the city over to Castruccio Castracani, under whose skillful tyranny it became the leading city in Italy for a short time until his death in 1328 – his tomb is in the Church of San Francesco.
Occupied by the troops of Louis the Bavarian, sold to the rich Genoese Gheradino Spinola, occupied by the Bohemian King John, pawned to the Rossi of Parma, ceded by them to Mastino della Scala of Verona, sold to the Florentines, handed over to the Pisans, nominally liberated by Emperor Charles IV and ruled by his vicars, Marquard von Randeck and his nephew Walther von Hochschlitz,[4] Lucca managed to assert its independence as a city-republic alongside Venice and Genoa, from 1369 onwards, first as a democracy and after 1628 as a patrician-aristocratic oligarchy. Until the French Revolution, it inscribed the word Libertas on its banners.

He strove to reunite the papacy in Italy and suppress his rivals, who had grown powerful there. In 1363, he excommunicated Bernabò Visconti and ordered a crusade against him and his relatives throughout Italy. He called them "robbers of ecclesiastical property." The following year, however, he deemed it necessary to lift the ban to restore peace. The occupied lands returned to Urban, who paid Visconti 500,000 florins for them.[1]

In 1364, Emperor Charles IV, the poet Giovanni Boccaccio as envoy of the city of Florence, Saint Bridget of Sweden, and Petrarch arrived in Avignon. They urged Pope Urban to return to Rome. But it was not until October 16, 1367 [mistake, it was 1368], that he entered Rome, accompanied by the German Emperor. Urban was greeted by Cardinal Albornoz, who had completed his fourteen years of work as a pacifier and legislator of the Papal States. Shortly thereafter, the cardinal died. In Rome, the Pope crowned Emperor Charles's wife, Elizabeth of Pomerania, as Empress.

On October 21, 1369, the Vatican received the Byzantine Emperor John V. John V wanted to convert to Catholicism and thus end the Eastern Schism. The Byzantine emperor hoped to obtain military aid for his state, which was surrounded by Islam. No member of the Byzantine clergy joined him. Pope Urban believed he had created a "union" of the churches. But this was a misconception. For the unhappy Byzantine emperor, the trip was a failure. He received no military aid and spent weeks in a Venetian debtors' prison. Finally, the emperor had to perform military service in the entourage of Sultan Murad I.

The founding of the University of Vienna was confirmed by Pope Urban. He also began to rebuild the destroyed Rome.

Death
Unable to resist the French cardinals' insistence any longer, Urban V embarked again from Corneto on September 5, 1370, bound for Avignon. Neither the threats of Saint Bridget of Sweden nor the representations of Petrarch deterred him from his plan. He arrived in Avignon on September 24 and died there shortly after on December 19.

"M. Ant. Sabellici Epist. L. III. fol. 17" is given as the Sabellicus address in one of the Burkhardt texts (the work is variously presented, not all have the footnote).