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Teodolinda - Wikipedia it.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeodolindaCached - Similar - Translate this page

On this page, scroll down to Stories of Teodolinda and it will show translated from Italian to English
the story of the commission of Fillipo Maria Visconti in The Church at Monza and the link with His daughter Bianca and the marriage to Francesco Sforza. It will also explain, from recently found documents the four stages it was painted. The dates are interesting, as are the Visconti and Sforza Heraldic Devices. It may also explain the CY and the PMB hand painted cards. I will be interested in what others think of this. Huck bought up this Teolinda some years ago.
~Lorredan

These parts of the fresco look so like the Cary-Yale women. This shows the device of the of the Three interlinked rings This is the damaged part..cannot tell what is underneath- but it looks like the top of a judgment scene. ~Lorredan

As this is the largest cycle fresco in Italy, I think it is wonderful the World Heritage fund is paying for the restoration. So I guess that the History and information and as much background as is possible will come further to light as the work is scheduled 2012-2014. The Visconti and Sforza arms is apparently a new discovery since the work began. As it gets cleaned and repaired, I await with pleasure fresh insights.
Here is the Dove and note how Teodolinda stance looks the card we call CY Hope. Until I started this search I did not know how popular in Lombardy were these Stories of Teodolinda throught the Medieval periods and of course the correct version -not the romanced one is taught in schools today.
It reminds me of Cinderella in a Catholic Version.
I would like to find some Celebration of the Church in Monza when everything was completed.
So another hunt begins.
~Lorredan

I posted a thread about the Geography of the CY World card.
Phaeded very kindly posted a place where you could enlarge the card.
I was particularly interested in the pennant or flag of the Knight in the center, by the river.
I believed it had an Ourobus on it.
Here is the post and maybe anyone who is interested can enlarge it and see what they see.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=910&start=10

The Ourobus was the symbol for Arianism, and Aqilulf, Teodolinda's second Husband was as Arian.
Arianism was to the catholic Church, a heretical belief.
From Wikipedia

Arianism is the theological teaching attributed to Arius (ca. AD 250–336), a Christian presbyter in Alexandria, Egypt, concerning the relationship of God to the Son of God (Jesus of Nazareth). Arius asserted that the Son of God was a subordinate entity to God the Father.

In 1439 at the Council of Florence, the main reason for the Schism between Eastern and Western Churches was the acceptance of the Filioque of the Nicene Creed.

Filioque (Ecclesiastical Latin: [filiˈɔkwe]), Latin for "and (from) the Son", is a phrase found in the form of Nicene Creed in use in most of the Western Christian churches. It is not present in the Greek text of the Nicene Creed as originally formulated at the First Council of Constantinople, which says only that the Holy Spirit proceeds "from the Father":

(From Wikipedia)

In the stories of Teodolinda, she converted both Constan 11 and her Husband to Catholicism; that meant accepting the Trinity per Catholic belief. So Arianism, is a belief that God is the "one and all" symbolised by the Ourobus, and The trinity belief is that there are 'three in one' proceeding from God- God the Father,The Son and Holy Spirit- not separate. The symbol for that is the 'Triquetra' originally three interlaced triangles, then ovals, then rings. The symbol is very similiar to the Visconti device of interlaced rings shown above the cherub in the image I posted above.
What more appropriate story to tell after the Council of Florence -than that of Teodolinda and her crushing of the heritic Arianism under her feet.
~Lorredan

Lorredan: No one accused the Greeks of the Council of Florence of Arianism or anything like it. There would have been no unity statement if the Greeks were Arians. They fully accepted the Trinity. Also, Monza was in all likelihood started ten years before 1444, well in advance of the Council (see my scan of Roettgen at viewtopic.php?f=11&t=932&start=10#p13616). Also, I see nothing in Filippo Visconti's history or his father's to suggest any interest in Arianism. Also, it is reading a lot into the scene to suppose that the man with the banner is the husband-to-be about to meet his bride in the castle, there to be converted to the Catholic faith.

The oroboros was a symbol used by others, for example alchemists. There are several alchemical works in the Visconti Library inventory: Arnaldus of Villanova, Raymond Lull (if it is pseudo-Lull), Peter of Albano (who died in prison), the Turba Philosophorum (a large compendium), and probably others I don't recognize. Many rulers at that time were interested in alchemy. For the alchemists, it was the beginning and end of the work: a suitable symbol for someone on a quest. Some saw the Grail quest as an alchemical parable, with the Grail being the Philosopher's Stone. Wolfram even called it a stone. There were Grail stories in the Visconti inventory: Boron's Saint Graal is one.

And how do you know it isn't just a circle, which for the Visconti was associated with Christ (see first picture at viewtopic.php?f=11&t=917&start=70). I'm not sure what it meant, perhaps the Alpha and the Omega.

And actually, I can't make out much of anything on the banner with any clarity.

Perhaps if I can explain it like this.
A General Council was to gather at Basel in 1431 by Eugenius 1V. It had been decreed by theGeneral Council of Pavia in 1424 to be held in Basel and confirmed by Martin V. The iterinary was in part to bring the Eastern Church back into the fold of the Church Militant by agreeing on a sticking point of the Nicene Creed called the Filioque. Secondly taking measures to combat heresy. Because of Papal politics it was anulled an supposed to go to Bologna in 1432.
Cutting the twoing anf fro-ing and the problem with the Council in particular, independant princes and military Captains now controlled nearly all of the Papal states and the Eugenius 1V Bulls and decrees were annulled. The Council now is trying to censure Eugenius who has declared the Council will go to Ferrara (where he lived) in direct opposistion to the decision of a place in Savoy or Basel. and he sends urgent requests to Christian countries to send their represenatives to Ferrara- they all go unheeded, even Filippo Visconti ignores the request. The idea of the Monarchy of the Catholic Church is under threat with the Independant Princes and secular leaders. So the Council goes ahead at Ferrara and there is little money because no-one came and so under the pretext of Plague they shifted to Florence, who had promised to finance the Eastern Churches going there. No one from outside of Italy except the eastern Churches went to Florence. Eugenius, declared those who supported Basel were to be excommunicated (Visconti was) but by now Eugenius was declared a heretic(amongst other things). Italian powers think of the Pope as Ruler of the Papal States, not a Monarch over theirs. The queen in Naples dies and Alfonso of Aragon and Filippo become champions of the Council of Basel in it's conflict with Eugenius until something becomes more politically advantageous which happened in 1442 + 1443. (Alfonso gets Naples). Once Felix becomes Pope every one changes sides....
Now what has this to do with the Cary Yale?
It shows through the story of Teodolinda the Lombard connection to Catholicism through ancient lineage, the connection to the Savoy (thus the Council of Basel) and the way Independant Princes and secular rulers can deal with Heresy in their own patch in their own way. Visconti was excommunicated, but Eugenius's Bulls were annulled.
A perfect story for a political statement.
I can see the ourobus when the section is enlarged and the field might well be The Field of Sardis outside Lomello on the River Agogna-the traditional boundary between Lombardy and Piedmont of the Savoy. The envoys of Teodolinda came there to meet Agilulf.
~Lorredan

I did not want to interrupt the interesting posts that Mikeh has in the Marriage Commemorations thread.
Firstly, I would say there appears to be no evidence that the Handpainted cards of the Visconti/Sforza were for any commemorations at all. They seem to copy something that has gone before, but made personal. I imagine there was a prototype, that for all we know Visconti may have designed. We do not have it now.
Secondly it would seem that, you could get these cards from a source and make them as fine or as plain as you could acquire, or had the money to do so.
At least two decks have the 'Bembo workshop' stamp. They seem to be some years apart- not many, but some.
Now I come to what Mikeh said.....

For the white cross as a personal/familial device, all I can think of is Savoy. But what does the card have to do with Savoy? How could the card be commemorating a marriage to Marie of Savoy, whom Filippo would have nothing to do with? I am not ready to say that it is merely a generic card of love with no reference to particular individuals, as Berti maintains. There are too many signs otherwise (the fountain, the viper, and the historical background I have presented paralleling what was happening in late 1441 and in 1444). But lest I be suspected of engendering teapots--although I think it could be more like a black hole, i.e. something suggested by the evidence but perhaps will never be observed directly--

I believe it to be a generic card as Berti says- made personal. It was made personal by some mimicry of events from the past, as was common. It gives the card some authority and shows an established tradition. The visual tool for projecting political permanence was always used. The cards were obviously for Bianca and Francesco's use.
Bianca had the Savoy blood, and I guess, unless the white cross on a red field was just indicating Cremona- what else could it indicate? Well the title of this thread shows what I believe. Bianca in many ways mimics Teodolinda.
Today as in the past in Catholic homes the gifts for a birth of a son would been expensive Missal or Psalter, Holy Communion chalice (which became later Christening Cups)something spiritual- a Gold Cross or a sacred painting. Not a set of expensive playing cards. Not even along with other gifts would playing cards be acceptable.
Maybe a Birthday gift for Bianca- now I could see that.
Oh, and there seems to be another link to Savoy in the PMB- the Green glove on the Brides hand.
~Lorredan

It's true that Bianca had Savoy blood, from her great-grandmother. Pretty far back, but it counts.

I appreciate your point about a christening gift. A birthday present makes sense, but I still think also a marriage commemoration, per family tradition, only this time in hand painted cards rather than an illuminated manuscript. After all, she's not an heiress.