Hi friends!
what do yoy think about the stranger cards of the man and moose in the tarot "Castle Ursino cards"
(trionfi): http://trionfi.com/0/j/d/charlesvi/
Original: http://www.icpal.beniculturali.it/esito ... afico.html
Re: man and moose
2I think it's an incredibly interesting card. You might be interested in reading a discussion on it from a few years ago here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=24374
I wonder if anyone has any new thoughts on the card from when that thread was active?
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=24374
I wonder if anyone has any new thoughts on the card from when that thread was active?
Re: man and moose
3Thanks for the link to the thread, Robert. One thing that wasn't mentioned there is the way the object held in the right hand of the figure seems to intersect the narrow white frame - in a similar way to the stag's nose - I'm wondering what shape of vessel would fit into that space. Perhaps a wide-bottomed flask, narrowing to a slimish neck? The right hand looks slightly odd to be holding the neck of a vessel, unless what is being seen is not a bent thumb but one that is behind the missing object - as it is, it looks almost as if a twig is being held. The lines nearest the body do suggest water being poured, and the explanation re. Diana restoring her lost virginity feels right from all the the evidence on the other thread, but as so often with these old cards, ambiguity continues to tantalize and mystery lingers.
The stag's head is wonderful...
Pen
The stag's head is wonderful...
Pen
Last edited by Pen on 09 Apr 2010, 07:03, edited 1 time in total.
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...
Re: man and moose
4Thanks friend. I go to this thread to read this.robert wrote:I think it's an incredibly interesting card. You might be interested in reading a discussion on it from a few years ago here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=24374
I wonder if anyone has any new thoughts on the card from when that thread was active?
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)
Re: man and moose
5Snif...
is not Santa Claus.
Again this boring Diana.
is not Santa Claus.
Again this boring Diana.
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)
Re: man and moose
6Mmfelesi, how can anyone (no matter who they are), sitting back to front on a stag, naked except for a necklace, and either pouring water on their private parts or doing something mysterious related to the same, possibly be boring....!?
Pen
Pen
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...
Re: man and moose
7xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD... Lol!
Well... I prefer Venus
Well... I prefer Venus
When a man has a theory // Can’t keep his mind on nothing else (By Ross)
Invisibility
8What makes you think there is an invisible flask or ewer in her right hand pouring water?
1. The embossed designs on the gold foil background does not seem to be part of the "foreground" image in these cards. I can think of two "exceptions." In the Visconti Sforza, some of the figures are "wearing" gold-embossed clothing. Also in that deck, the "talk-balloons" of the figures on the Wheel of Fortune are embedded in the gold-embossed background. But these examples are very different from saying that there is a major symbolic element of the card buried in the embossing.
2. Seeing the damaged edges of the card, I can't see how a painted flask or ewer could have flaked off out of her hand without leaving clear signs of the damage. It looks to me like the artists laid down the paint first and added the gold leaf background afterwards, working around the painted elements. This makes sense in terms of saving gold and time, and more importantly, having a more solid base for the paint to adhere to.
So for these reasons I believe it is a lovely fantasy, but no more, that the figure is or was holding a flask or ewer and pouring it on herself.
1. The embossed designs on the gold foil background does not seem to be part of the "foreground" image in these cards. I can think of two "exceptions." In the Visconti Sforza, some of the figures are "wearing" gold-embossed clothing. Also in that deck, the "talk-balloons" of the figures on the Wheel of Fortune are embedded in the gold-embossed background. But these examples are very different from saying that there is a major symbolic element of the card buried in the embossing.
2. Seeing the damaged edges of the card, I can't see how a painted flask or ewer could have flaked off out of her hand without leaving clear signs of the damage. It looks to me like the artists laid down the paint first and added the gold leaf background afterwards, working around the painted elements. This makes sense in terms of saving gold and time, and more importantly, having a more solid base for the paint to adhere to.
So for these reasons I believe it is a lovely fantasy, but no more, that the figure is or was holding a flask or ewer and pouring it on herself.
Re: Invisibility
9The outlines of the cup I think are still visible on close inspection. As pen notes the inverted triangular, fan shaped base crosses into the white frame, as I see it the wide (somewhat sunflower head like) bowl also crosses the body of the figure under her armpit and over the top of her breast area.debra wrote:What makes you think there is an invisible flask or ewer in her right hand pouring water?
Re: Invisibility
10Hi debra,
What the left hand is holding, or doing, is harder to see.
I think the cup or vessel is clearly visible and is no fantasy. The stem, widening near the base, retains paint. The outline of the base itself goes outside the border of the card. The cup itself is very clearly outlined, and covers part of the pectoral of the figure.debra wrote:What makes you think there is an invisible flask or ewer in her right hand pouring water?
1. The embossed designs on the gold foil background does not seem to be part of the "foreground" image in these cards. I can think of two "exceptions." In the Visconti Sforza, some of the figures are "wearing" gold-embossed clothing. Also in that deck, the "talk-balloons" of the figures on the Wheel of Fortune are embedded in the gold-embossed background. But these examples are very different from saying that there is a major symbolic element of the card buried in the embossing.
2. Seeing the damaged edges of the card, I can't see how a painted flask or ewer could have flaked off out of her hand without leaving clear signs of the damage. It looks to me like the artists laid down the paint first and added the gold leaf background afterwards, working around the painted elements. This makes sense in terms of saving gold and time, and more importantly, having a more solid base for the paint to adhere to.
So for these reasons I believe it is a lovely fantasy, but no more, that the figure is or was holding a flask or ewer and pouring it on herself.
What the left hand is holding, or doing, is harder to see.