Ah, that's fine with your research to Lycophron. First to Giubertomikeh wrote:On "Falcone," it seems to me that it might be a shortened form of "Grifalcone," the Francesco Grifalcone of the FR.GR of the beginning of the "third selva" (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/35799/35 ... ELVA_TERZA). As I said at posting.php?mode=quote&f=11&p=10869, on http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/teo ... ografico)/ we learn that the humanist noble Francesco Grifalcone was Folengo's patron in Venice, a fitting person to direct a sonnet concerning the politics of Venice, France, Pope, Emperor, and Turks. It's also great name, combining as it does "griffin" and "falcon." (For some reason, when I click on that last link in Preview mode, "error" comes up. But if I paste the actual URL in my browser, it comes up fine.)
It's confusing, Huck, how you comment on "Baldus" in the other thread (on the "Caos"'s tarocchi sonnets ) and the tarocchi sonnets on this thread (on tarot reference in "Baldus"). I suppose that's inevitable, since we are using "Baldus" to clarify "Caos." But as a result, it's easy to miss things, because you have to search for what was said twice.
Huck wroteWell, it depends on your milieu. Cilla sister of Hecuba, Wikipedia says, is referenced in the works of Lycophron--or maybe the comments on Lycophron by Tzetzes, I'm not sure (http://www.theoi.com/Text/LycophronAlexandra.html, http://www.theoi.com/Text/LycophronAlexandra1.html). It contains the alleged prophetic utterances of Cassandra, According to WorldCat, manuscripts of Lycophron go back to 1453. I suspect it is one of those brought over by Bessarion from Greece to Italy. Wikipedia says that Aldus published it in 1513 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycophron). That's in Venice. Lycrophon is said to have been famous for his obscure use of names--and so a kindred spirit to Folengo. But did Folengo know Greek? If not, he probably knew someone who did.Fo-Cilla might be an idea, cause somehow is Virgil as Mantovan poet in the background and he wrote about Aeneas, who also had a Trojan background. But Cilla is rather unknown, or?
Lycrophon looks like he might be fun to read in translation. Well, the next time at the library, I'll check him out. The book might have more information on its availability, and the availability of the reference to Cilla, in 16th century Venice.
Huck wroteI don't recall seeing that. Who was this real Giuberto?With Giuberto we have a real person figure, which appeared in the history of Folengio's career.
Giuberto appears in the Triperuno in the Tarocchi poem context ... chapter 12 according my counting. Then Giuberto appears as Gilberto in the translation of Baldo (Mullegan), but in the original it is Giuberto.
Baldo, chapter 15
In my opinion Giuberto in the Triperuno is the first in the Trieruno and likely dominating. the other three name seems to be "attributes", starting with Falcone/Falchetto as dog-man, and Focilla and Mirtella "not explained for the moment" (I ignore your suggestion Grifalcone, cause we really don't know, what sort of reality or pseudonym this might be ... the Italian biography offers the Triperuno as "evidence", this seems to run in a circle. Grifalcone sounds indeed very near to Grifone and Falchetto is something very near to a Grifone.
But I found something other rather interesting.
The relevant passage for the 4 persons is:
Then follow the poems with short dialog-intermezzi. The single sonnets are titled with Tarocchi card names ... whoever made this, he sorted the names according the rank of one of the usual Tarocchi rows, in this case the Ferrarese order, as Giustizia appears before Angiolo. But in one case he either made an error, or he (Folengo ?) followed "a higher poetical intention": Diavolo is higher than Foco, in th Tarocchi row it's lower.Limerno. Dirottilo ispeditamente. Giá la signora non è cagione propria di questi: ma heri Giuberto e Focilla, Falcone e Mirtella mi condussero in una camera secretamente, ove, trovati ch'ebbeno le carte lusorie de trionfi, quelli a sorte fra loro si divisero; e vòlto a me, ciascuno di loro la sorte propria de li toccati trionfi mi espose, pregandomi che sopra quelli un sonetto gli componessi.
Triperuno. Assai piú duro soggetto potrebbevi sotto la sorte che sotto lo beneplacito del poeta accascare.
Limerno. E questa tua ragione qualche bona iscusazione appresso gli uomini intelligenti recarammi, se non cosí facili, come la natura del verso richiede, saranno. Ora vegnamo dunque primeramente a la ventura ovvero sorte di Giuberto; dopoi la quale, né piú né meno, voglioti lo sonetto di quella recitare, ove potrai diligentemente considerare tutti li detti trionfi, a ciascaduno sonetto singularmente sortiti, essere quattro fiate nominati sí come con lo aiuto de le maggiori figure si comprende:
Inside the sonnets itself, the different names appear, as it seems, in chaotic order, not related to the given titles, just following the internal interests of the poems.1. Giuberto: GIUSTIZIA (20), ANGIOLO (19), DIAVOLO (14), FOCO(15), AMORE (6); 20-19-14-15-6
2. Focilla: MONDO (21), STELLA(17), ROTA(10), FORTEZZA (9), TEMPERANZIA(), BAGATTELLA (1); 21-17-10-9-?-1
3. Falcone: LUNA (18), APPICCATO (12), PAPA (5), IMPERATORE (4), PAPESSA (2); 18-12-5-4-2
4. Mirtella: SOLE (19), MORTE (13), TEMPO (11), CARRO(), IMPERATRICE(3), MATTO (0); 19-13-11-?-3-0
Interesting is, that the first playing card title, which appears (Giuberto 1st line), is "Foco", just the one, which appears in the title as "an error" or "higher intention". It appears as "Foco d'Amore", and inside the poem it's of demonic character, at least attacked as such. And perhaps it should be also noted, that "Focilla" seems to be related to the word Foco ... at least it has some similiraty. .
Now the poet has promised before the start the following: "... a ciascaduno sonetto singularmente sortiti, essere quattro fiate nominati sí come con lo aiuto de le maggiori figure si comprende". Each name appears 4x in each sonnet ... is this true? ... I'll check this.
Then ..Giuberto
Quando 'l Foco d'Amor, che m'arde ognora,
penso e ripenso, fra me stesso i' dico:
— Angiol di Dio non è, ma lo nemico
che la Giustizia spinse del ciel fora.
Ed è pur chi qual Angiolo l'adora,
chiamando le sue fiamme «dolce intrico».
Ma nego ciò, ché di Giustizia amico
non mai fu chi in Demonio s'innamora.
Amor di donna è ardor d'un spirto nero,
lo cui viso se 'n gli occhi un Angiol pare,
non t'ingannar, ch'è fraude e non Giustizia.
Giustizia esser non puote, ove malizia
ripose de sue faci il crudo arciero,
per cui Satán Angiol di luce appare.
Justice gets 4x Giustizia
Angel gets 4x Angiol
Devil gets Diablo, Demonio, Spirto nero, Satán
Tower gets Foco, Fiamme, ???? (inganno? fraude?), Faci
My comment to Folengo's statement, that indeed in each of the 4 parts of the sonnets all 5 mentioned Tarocchi cards appear ... although only "somehow". The names are partly given in variants.
*********************
Focelli
World gets 4x MondoQuesta fortuna al mondo è 'n Bagattella,
ch'or quinci altrui solleva, or quindi abbassa.
Non è Tempranzia in lei, però fracassa
la forza di chi nacque in prava Stella.
Sol una temperata forte e bella
donna, che di splendor le Stelle passa,
la instabil Rota tien umile e bassa;
e 'n gioco lei di galle al mondo appella.
Costei tempratamente sua Fortezza
usato ha sempre, tal che 'l Mondo e 'nsieme
la sorte de le Stelle a scherzo mena.
Ben può fortuna con sua leggerezza
ir ne le Stelle di più forze estreme:
chi sa temprarsi lei col Mondo affrena.
Star gets 4x Stelle or Stella
Fortuna gets 2x Fortuna, 1x Rota, 1x Sorte
Strength gets Forza, Forte, Fortezza, Forze
Temperance gets Tempranzia, Temperata, Tempratamente, Temprarsi
Magician gets Bagatella, Gioco, Scherzo, Leggerezza
My comment: Indeed, again I find all Tarocchi cards in the 4 arts of the poem.
****************
My comment: And in the last of the 4 sonnets then the "Caos del Triperuno" .. some of the cards behave like in the three sonnets before, but others seem to be not complete, and then there appear cards names, which already had their manifestation in the other three sonnets, so for instance the Foco from sonnet 1, which I see here as "Saetta". Time appears as "tempo tempo" in one line, and the whole order is broken ... :- ... and Folengo has his fun, when anybody like me attempts to count in his system, if his earlier promise was really fulfilled.Falcone
Europa mia, quando fia mai che l'una
parte di te, c'ha il turco traditore,
rinfràncati lo Papa o Imperatore,
mentre han le chiavi in man, per lor fortuna?
Aimè! la traditrice ed importuna
ripose in man di donna il summo onore ( Fortuna fatta Papessa. )
di Piero e tiene l'imperial furore
sol contra il giglio e non contra la Luna.
Che se 'l papa non fusse una Papessa
che per un piè Marcin sospeso tiene,
la Luna in griffo a l'aquila vedrei.
Ma questi papi o imperatori miei
fan si, che mia Papessa far si viene
la Luna, e vo' appiccarmi da me stessa.{/quote]
Moon gets 3x Luna and 1x l'una
Pope gets 3x papa (or papi) and 1x Piero
Emperor gets 2x Imperatore, 1x Imperial and 1x l'Aquila
Papessa (strange) is first Fortuna and then "Fortuna fatte Papessa" and then Papessa
The Hanging Man gets traditore, traditrice, then "per un piè Marcin sospeso tiene" and finally hangs himself ("appiccarmi da me stessa")
My comment: Somehow Folengo stayed in his system, but Fortuna (which already was used in the sonnet) appears as changed to Papessa. Small creative sidestep,from Folengo. I understand that.
******************
Mirtella
Simil pazzia non trovo sotto 'l Sole,
di chi a gioir del Tempo tempo aspetta:
Morte, su 'l Carro Imperatrice, affretta
mandar in polve nostra umana prole.
Al Sole in breve tempo le viole
col strame il villanel sul Carro assetta:
Matto chi teme la mortal saetta,
ch'anco l'Imperatrici uccider vole.
Però de' sciocchi avrai sul Carro imperio
s'indugi, donna, più mentre sei bella,
che 'l Sol d'ogni bellezza invecchia e more.
Godi, pazza! che attendi? godi 'l fiore!
fugge del Sol il Carro, e il cimiterio
la nera Imperatrice empir s'abbella.
And Folengo embarks: "Godi, pazza! che attendi? godi 'l fiore!", and talks then of a black empress in the graveyard. Hekuba was a sort of of Empress, wasn't she?
And Triperuno adds: "TRIPERUNO: This seems to me more satisfying than the others, oh my master. " ... .-) ... likely Triperuno hadn't counted.
This fourth sonnet is similar to the whole Triperuno ... I would assume. Folengo suggests orders how to explain, makes then some time, but disrupts from then, when he thinks, that he has done enough in this direction. Folengo prefers to be not really predictable.