Re: help identification tarot of marseilles

81
I reply to all three in a single post, records (baptism, marriage or death) were compiled little by little as there were baptismal marriages, etc.
That’s why there can be years of emptiness in writing.The register may have been bound at a later time, but given the price of sheets of paper I would never have sewn white sheets would have recovered them for other things. If the problem of Ross is because they used older sheets of paper, including these playing cards, is because they did not use a block of paper instead of cartoons ,were sheets to recycle I put the photo to meetà restoration see if you understand me better:
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For the link with Imperia, which I remember was divided into two villages, the first Porto Maurizio was Savoy (then Piedmontese) Oneglia was under the Republic of Genoa ...we also say that Finale Ligure was Spanish and has been in conflict with Genoa for centuries.
When I hand over the restored records, they gave me permission to see if there are any other records in the records they have belonging to VEZZI PORTIO.I should deliver on May 10th if your research requires a photo against the light of the papers to see orientation of strands and wire rods I can do without problems

Re: help identification tarot of marseilles

82
Andrea Vitali found another "Gannellini", which he estimated to c.1620.
http://letarot.it/page.aspx?id=453
May cancer come to Goffo and Tarocco
New documents between history and literature, XVIth - XIXth centuries


The poet is Gabriella Chiabrera (Savona, 1552-1638)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriello_Chiabrera

The text is a letter "29".
https://books.google.de/books/about/Let ... edir_esc=y
Lettere di Gabriello Chiabrera nobile savonese date in luce da Giacomo Filippo Porrata della Compagnia di Gesù e dal medesimo dedicate a sua eccellenza il signor conte Gian-Luca Pallavicino ..
Gabriello Chiabrera, Giacomo Filippo Porrata
per Lelio dalla Volpe impressore dell'Instituto delle Scienze, 1762 - 167 Seiten
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Michael Howard translated:
“Your Ladyship's letter arrived today, so I reply late. I am glad you are well over the time of the Carnival, and I thank her for the invitation, and I would not have waited, however, if the weather were not so perverse. But I cannot put myself to the test considering that the horrible winter has hit me. As soon as the air is warm, the first ship will take me to Your Ladyship, and my mind is with you all the warm weather and in the manner of snakes, leaves the old forms in these dear lodges. During this leisure, I have put in order, as I could, my Poems; those I think of printing: I likewise set in order many sheets which I call 'Solazzi', (Solaces) but still haven’t the desire to print: I will give them to someone who, after I am dead, will do what he wants with them. So I have moved away from the Muses, and I'll be mute, or pass the boredom with some ‘Sermonetto’ (small Discourse). Meanwhile Your Ladyship writes me sometimes. I was told that a decreet was made that Tarot and Gannellini cards are forbidden, because among them there are some figures of Angels, and Heavens, and the like: I do not know what Signora Emilia will think about it etc…… Savona”

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Added: I found a 2nd letter with gannellini in the same book:
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Again it has no date.

81
Io non rifiuto la sicurezza del mio abitare in Genova e se V.S. l'ottiene non me ne mandi i fogli; ma ella gli serbi: perciocchè io sono per fare sforzo di Pasqueggiare con V.S., se i freddi, i quali qui sono bestiali, non mi ritengono. E veramente vorrei trovarmi nella nobile casa vostra, acciò noi la facessimo di nuovo Italiana di Francese, e Spagnuola. Del P. Predicatore la colpa vada addosso al popolo; che se fosse in lui, sempre sarebbe tale; che Demostene sempre è piacciuto ad un modo e similmente Cicerone. Io m'apparecchio a passare l'estate, quanto ella fia lunga a Fassolo, e però s'io indugiassi un poco, non paja miracolo. A tutti bacio le mani; et alla Signora Emilia, che martello darei, s'io m'impicciaffi co' Gannellini, quando ella mi desidera cosi vecchio come sono?
Di Savona ventosissima
Automatic translation ...
I do not refuse the safety of my living in Genoa and if V.S. you get it, don't send me the sheets; but she Serbs: because I am to make an effort to Easter with V.S., if the cold, who here are bestial, do not hold me back. And I really would like to be in your noble house, so that we could make it again Italian, French, and Spanish. The blame goes on the people of P. Preacher; that if it were in him, it would always be such; that Demosthenes always liked one way and Cicero likewise. I am preparing to spend the summer, as long as it is in Fassolo, and yet if I linger a little, it does not seem a miracle. I kiss everyone's hands; and to Signora Emilia, what hammer would I give, if I meddle with Gannellini, when she wants me as old as I am?
Very windy in Savona
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Having gotten the second letter I found a 3rd with gannelini (gannelino in this case), and this was dated to 6th of November 1632.
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Gannellino appears at the 5th last line of page 44. Again Signora Emilia appears and also the V. S. (whatever this means).

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The oldest dated letter is from 1625, then follow a few of 1629 and then follow letters from 1632 - 1638 in all years. The last letter is dated 2nd of October 1638 with a note about the death of the author at October 14 in the same year (he became 86 years old). The letters are NOT dated always in the row of the time. Likely the c1620 of Andrea is too optimistic.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: help identification tarot of marseilles

83
Thierry's source for his 2012 comment on the "Unsolved problem" page was Nicola Antonio De Giorgio, who extensively researched the history of playing cards in Lucca.

De Giorgio published his research in The Playing Card, in 2019. In fact the entry is dated 8 June 1595.

1595 (Republic of Genoa) Genovese bando of 8 June 1595, which forbids the introduction into the Republic of "carte, tarocchi, o ganellini da qualsivoglia luogo, e in specie di Lucca e Fiorenza… " (Nicola Antonio De Giorgio, "Le Carte da Gioco a Lucca", The Playing-Card, 48-1, July-Sep. 2019, pp. 14-30; for the bando entry see p. 16 and p. 30 note 6)
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Re: help identification tarot of marseilles

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Huck wrote: 05 May 2021, 16:38 Does the Genoese prohibition mean, that the law prohibited card playing generally or does it mean, that Genoa intended to protect the own production against foreign producers?
It was an attempt to protect Genovese cardmakers from the foreign producers, especially those of Lucca and Florence—which reinforces the impression given by the cards and by the name Ganellini that Lucca played an important role in the transmission of the game to Liguria. Here's a longer excerpt from De Giorgio's article: ""Su questo bando è riportato testualmente "che chi introdurrà nelle presente città, e Dominio tutto della Serenissima Repubblica, Carte, Tarocchi, o ganellini di qualsivoglia luogo, e in specie di Lucca, e Fiorenza incorrerà quel tale in pena pecunaria fino a lire quattrocento moneta corrente e ogni altra arbitraria."

Cardmaking in general in Genoa (i.e. not just Ganellini but other cards as well) seems to date back to at least 1587. Production in the region of Finale apparently started around 1620 but probably didn't become a serious commercial business until late in that century. We owe that information to Paolo Calcagno, who wrote this on pp. 52-3 of his article "Quando il gioco diventa un’impresa commerciale: il caso delle carte del Finale (secoli XVII-XVIII)" (Ludica 13-14, 2007-2008):
Per quanto sia difficile datare l’inizio della fabbricazione delle carte da gioco in Liguria, una diffusa commercializzazione è già in atto nel Cinquecento, allorché la Repubblica decide di imporre una gabella (1587), riscossa da un «appaltatore delle carte». Le gride, che sanciscono la «proibizione a chiunque sia di fabbricare, introdurre, tenere, vendere e comprare carte nella presente città [di Genova] e Dominio, eccettuati quelli che haveranno licenza dall’appaltatore» e «bollate col segno» dello stesso, vengono più volte rinnovate, e ne troviamo traccia circa un secolo dopo, il 26 agosto 1672. Il Casalis fa risalire l’avvio di questa attività nel Finalese attorno al 1620, e attribuisce l’impresa ai proprietari delle cartiere locali alla ricerca di nuovi mercati. Da allora la manifattura delle carte avrebbe conosciuto un continuo incremento: secondo il prefetto napoleonico Chabrol de Volvic in poco tempo «c’erano 26 fabbriche in attività e la buona qualità delle carte in confronto a quelle del Piemonte» avrebbe favorito la vendita del prodotto finalese in Spagna, Corsica e Sicilia, le quali «ne importavano 16-20.000 pacchi da 60 mazzi ciascuno, e una grande quantità veniva venduta anche in Italia».
In realtà la documentazione attesta uno sviluppo più tardivo della produzione: carte se ne producono certamente sin dai primi anni del Seicento, vale a dire da quando si insedia la guarnigione spagnola, ma per l’impianto delle prime fabbriche specializzate e lo sviluppo di un commercio di esportazione bisogna attendere gli ultimi decenni del secolo.

Although it is difficult to date the beginning of the manufacture of playing cards in Liguria, a widespread commercialization was already underway in the 16th century, when the Republic decided to impose a tax (1587), levied by a "contractor of cards". The proclamations, which decreed the "prohibition for anyone to manufacture, introduce, keep, sell and buy papers in the present city [of Genoa] and its Dominion, except those who were licensed by the contractor" and "stamped with the sign" of the same, were renewed several times, and we find a trace of them about a century later, on 26 August 1672. Casalis dates the start of this activity in the Finale area to around 1620, and attributes the enterprise to the owners of the local paper mills in search of new markets. According to Napoleon's prefect Chabrol de Volvic, in a short period of time "there were 26 factories in activity and the good quality of the cards compared to those of Piedmont" would have favored the sale of Finalese products in Spain, Corsica, and Sicily, which "imported 16-20,000 packs of 60 bundles each, and a large quantity was also sold in Italy".
In fact, the documentation attests to a later development of production [in Finale]: cards were certainly produced from the early seventeenth century, that is, from when the Spanish garrison was established, but for the establishment of the first specialized factories and the development of an export trade we must wait until the last decades of the century.
Chabrol's comments in relation to Piedmont provide further evidence of the links between that region and Liguria in terms of playing-card production and sale, adding weight to the possibility that the upturned Hanged Man in these Ligurian Ganellini decks may have been taken over from tarot decks of the same general type as the one used by Piscina in Piedmont.

Re: help identification tarot of marseilles

86
Nathaniel wrote: 05 May 2021, 17:21 Cardmaking in general in Genoa (i.e. not just Ganellini but other cards as well) seems to date back to at least 1587. Production in the region of Finale apparently started around 1620 but probably didn't become a serious commercial business until late in that century.
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten ... in-europa/
Statistic published in 1992; estimations for inhabitants of the 20 largest cities in Europe in 1330/1500

YEAR 1050
450 Cordoba
350 Palermo
90 Sevilla
50 Salerno
45 Venice
40 Regensburg
37 Toledo
35 Barbastro
35 Roma
33 Cartagena
30 Mainz
30 Neapel
30 Merida
27 Almeria
26 Granada
25 London
25 Laon
25 Palma
25 Speyer
25 Elvira

YEAR 1200
150 Palermo
110 Paris
80 Sevilla
70 Venedig
60 Florence
60 Granada
60 Cordoba
50 Cologne
40 Ypern
40 Leon
35 Toledo
33 Verona
31 Narbonne
30 Messina
30 Salerno
30 Genoa
30 Angers
30 Naples

YEAR 1330
1. 150 Granada
----150 Paris
3. 110 Venice
4. 100 Genoa
---- 100 Milan
6. 90 Florence
---- 90 Sevilla
8. 60 Cordoba
---- 60 Naples
10. 54 Cologne
11. 51 Palermo
12. 50 Siena
13. 48 Barcelona
14. 44 Valencia
15. 42 Toledo
16. 40 Brügg
---- 40 Bologna
---- 40 Malaga
---- 40 Cremona
---- 40 Aquila

YEAR 1500
1. 225 Paris
2. 125 Naples
3. 100 Venice
---- 100 Milan
4. 70 Granada
---- 70 Prague
6. 65 Lissabon
7. 60 Tours
8. 58 Genoa
9. 55 Florence
---- 55 Gent
---- 55 Rome
---- 55 Palermo
13. 50 Bologna
---- 50 Verona
---- 50 London
---- 50 Lyon
---- 50 Orleans
---- 50 Bordeaux
20. 49 Brescia

YEAR 1650
400 Paris
350 London
300 Naples
150 Lissabon
140 Venice
120 Milan
120 Amsterdam
110 Rom
100 Madrid
100 Palermo
80 Sevilla
74 Florence
70 Marseille
70 Vienna
70 Granada
65 Kopenhagen
64 Genoa
63 Bologna 60
60 Rouen
60 Lyon

It's hardly imaginable, that a city of the size of Genoa hadn't a playing card production in the year 1500.

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Added: German Wiki, "Papiermühlen"
Papiermühlen auf europäischen Boden entstanden in Spanien, Frankreich bei Troyes (1340), in Italien bei Fabriano (1238) und Genua (um 1433) und in der Schweiz in Basel (1433, in Zürich (1479). In Deutschland wurde die erste Papiermühle im Jahre 1390 vor den Toren Nürnbergs von dem Kaufmann Ulman Stromer (1329-1407) gegründet.
Genoa had a paper mill in 1433. Playing card productions were attracted by paper mills.

1433 was a time, when Filippo Maria Visconti controlled Genoa ... this was stopped in 1435.

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There is another list with largest cities of Europe. The city Genoa is not included.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l ... in_history
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: help identification tarot of marseilles

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Image
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genua

Image
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezianische_Kolonien


Pisa
Sardinia from 1207 to 1324.
Corsica from 1050 to 1295.
Balearic Islands from 1115 to 1184. Pisan merchants were among the initiators of the 1113–1115 Balearic Islands expedition.
Battle with Genoa in the year 1284 with catastrophic results for Pisa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Meloria_(1284)

Aragon 1330
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Aragon 1450
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Large picture: https://i.redd.it/j79mntkez1a51.jpg

Ottoman empire
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Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: help identification tarot of marseilles

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Franco Pratesi once had a longer list of Minchiate exports from Florence to various cities about a period of 33 years between 1729-1762 ...

http://naibi.net/A/82-Pratesi-2a%20bozza-4ott2018.pdf

Place and the total of the decks in 33 years
Rome 45,140
Siena 6,989
Lisbon 1,518
Perugia 1,385
Città di Castello 1,306
Genoa 656
Bologna 537
Naples 449
Chitignano 387
Ferrara 380
Venice 354
Viterbo 346
Vienna 283
Vernio 276
Piombino 212
Lucca 182
Civitavecchia 152
Palermo 150
Constantinople 144
Forlì 144
Portolongone 120
Modena 114
Orbetello 110
Spain 108
Viareggio 100
Orvieto 100
Malta 96
Cadiz 90
Ancona 66
Pesaro 66
Portugal 60
Cologne 52
Marseille 48
Urbino 42
Messina 36
Germany 34
Qualandro 30
Civitella 25
Livorno 24
Trieste 24
Pietrasanta 24
France 24
Madrid 24
Faenza 18
Città della Pieve 16
Dresden 12
Pisa 12
Milan 12
Paris 12
Scaricalasino 6
London 4
----------------
total 62,499

The list has much more details in the full article. For instance ...

Vienna got 283, from these 144 (about 50%) in 1756, when Minchiate was presented in a popular book.
http://books.google.de/books?id=75xPAAA ... te&f=false
Cologne got 52 and 40 of them in the year 1731, possibly there was some interaction with the Farina-family.
Dresden got 12, the court was known for its interest in Italian arts.
Huck
http://trionfi.com