Did someone write about this entry before Andrea's article?
I do not know of anyone before ...
Tarotica : 1584
It seems that it could be the first document, we now know, containing information about the tarot game along with information about the mystical of tarot.
Yet the text is written in very difficult Latin hard to translate. Although the literal translation is difficult to understand what the author says about the game due to a convoluted writing with at time popular Latin impression. Extraordinary as the author calls the world of Tarot: TAROTICA
Author : Guillaume D’Oncieu
Title: Numeralium locorum decas: in omni ferè scientiarum genere mysticis referta propositionibus.
Dedication: Ad Serenissimum Carolum Emanuelem Sabaudiae Ducem
Printer: apud Carolym Pesnot
Place of printing: Lugduni
Year: 1584
Title of Andrea Vitalali ' s
Tarotica – 1584
La Quaterna dei Tarocchi fra Mistica e Gioco
i.e.
Tarotica -1584
The Tarot set of four numbers between Mysticism and Game
This the link (at the moment in Italian version):
http://www.letarot.it/page.aspx?id=293&lng=ITA
Re: Tarotica : 1584
2Very nice find from Andrea Vitali.
Jess Karlin, if he really existed, would have liked to see that someone coined the same word he used on the internet, over 400 years ago.
http://tarotica.blogspot.com/
The book by Guillaume d'Oncieu is at Google Books -
http://books.google.fr/books?id=aFr_Mx6 ... ca&f=false
Andrea provides an Italian translation of the passages.
Jess Karlin, if he really existed, would have liked to see that someone coined the same word he used on the internet, over 400 years ago.
http://tarotica.blogspot.com/
The book by Guillaume d'Oncieu is at Google Books -
http://books.google.fr/books?id=aFr_Mx6 ... ca&f=false
Andrea provides an Italian translation of the passages.
Re: Tarotica : 1584
3Thank you Alain, I did not know of this new finding.
Even if Vitali's site provides an Italian translation, it's not easy to make sense of it.
Apparently ,there is a great emphasis on numbers 3, 4 and 7.
For instance, tarot is described as being made of 3 parts:
1) the 56 pips+court cards,
2) the 21 trumps
3) the Fool.
56 is described as “a double septenary square” (2*7*4) and 21 as a triple septenary (3*7).
D’Oncieu also notes that the total number of cards can be divided in three equal sets of 26.
Even if Vitali's site provides an Italian translation, it's not easy to make sense of it.
Apparently ,there is a great emphasis on numbers 3, 4 and 7.
For instance, tarot is described as being made of 3 parts:
1) the 56 pips+court cards,
2) the 21 trumps
3) the Fool.
56 is described as “a double septenary square” (2*7*4) and 21 as a triple septenary (3*7).
D’Oncieu also notes that the total number of cards can be divided in three equal sets of 26.
Re: Tarotica : 1584
4He seems to begin by comparing the structure of the cards to that of the 'square shape in games of fate men call dice' (?) (Does Tessera here mean dice?) :
Quadrata figura qua sors ludit in humanis Tessera dicta.
Quadrata quoque in cartis, inde cartae dictae:
That called dice by men who play lots is square shaped. Cards are also square, hence they are called cards. (or, and so cardmakers call them?)
As far as I can tell however dice are not mentioned again . . .
SteveM
Quadrata figura qua sors ludit in humanis Tessera dicta.
Quadrata quoque in cartis, inde cartae dictae:
That called dice by men who play lots is square shaped. Cards are also square, hence they are called cards. (or, and so cardmakers call them?)
As far as I can tell however dice are not mentioned again . . .
SteveM
Re: Tarotica : 1584
5Hello Steve,SteveM wrote:He seems to begin by comparing the structure of the cards to that of the 'square shape in games of fate men call dice' (?) (Does Tessera here mean dice?) :
Quadrata figura qua sors ludit in humanis Tessera dicta.
Quadrata quoque in cartis, inde cartae dictae:
That called dice by men who play lots is square shaped. Cards are also square, hence they are called cards. (or, and so cardmakers call them?)
in my opinion, your first interpretation of the second line is the correct one:
"Cards are also square, hence they are called cards".
D’Oncieu seems to think that "carta" etymologically derives from "quadrus", possibly relating the word to the French "carrè".
Last edited by marco on 03 Jan 2012, 08:48, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Tarotica : 1584
6I vaguely recall there was some other reference to cards as 'quarters' . . . ? (Possibly it was a conversation as to whether a reference to a game of 'quarters' meant cards or some other game?)marco wrote: D’Oncieu seems to think that "carta" etymologically derives from "quadrus", possibly relating the word to the French "carrè".
Last edited by SteveM on 03 Jan 2012, 08:50, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Tarotica : 1584
7Perhaps this:SteveM wrote:I vaguely recall there was some other reference to cards as 'quarters' . . . ?marco wrote: D’Oncieu seems to think that "carta" etymologically derives from "quadrus", possibly relating the word to the French "carrè".
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=761
Huck
http://trionfi.com
http://trionfi.com
Re: Tarotica : 1584
8I have offered Andrea a translation from the game point of you. He has already published it at the end of his article online. My translation is visible also on my site TRETRE at the address
http://www.tretre.it/menu/accademia-del ... cieu-1584/
Few keys to understand the text are : quaternum means quarter of the deck, that is to say suit. Universum is the whole thing, it is to say the deck. Etcetera. It comes out a description of the Tarot deck in use in Piedmont-Savoy of the time : a 14x4+21+1. Septenarium is also a factor : 14x4=56, that is to say the double of a septenarium and a quaternum (7x4x2=56). And so on.
http://www.tretre.it/menu/accademia-del ... cieu-1584/
Few keys to understand the text are : quaternum means quarter of the deck, that is to say suit. Universum is the whole thing, it is to say the deck. Etcetera. It comes out a description of the Tarot deck in use in Piedmont-Savoy of the time : a 14x4+21+1. Septenarium is also a factor : 14x4=56, that is to say the double of a septenarium and a quaternum (7x4x2=56). And so on.
Last edited by GirolamoZorli on 19 Feb 2016, 16:56, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Tarotica : 1584
10Thanks for the link GZ ! Though neither my Latin nor Italian is up to making full sense of this - your interpretation and notes have helped clarify a great deal.GirolamoZorli wrote: Few keys to understand the text are : quaternum means quarter of the deck, that is to say suit. Universum is the whole thing, it is to say the deck. Etcetera. It comes out a description of the Tarot deck in use in Piedmont-Savoy of the time : a 13x4+21+1. Septenarium is also a factor : 13x4=56, that is to say the double of a septenarium and a quaternum (7x4x2=56). And so on.
re: sleight correction should be 14 not 13!? -14x4=56
2x7x4