I start a new thread, not to go too much OT from the discussion started by Ross in the thread about the World.
I've picked up Kaplan II and re-read the section about the cards discovered in the Castello Sforzesco in Milan (p. 289-296). I am sure that Novati (who first presented the cards in 1908) gives much more information, but I have not read his articles.
I think the "classical" group is very interesting. It is strange to see all this different card-backs with the theme of classical gods.
In particular, I have noticed that in the bottom left corner of Marte, at the back of the 10 of coins, the "ADM" acronym appears. Is it a signature? Which hypotheses have been made about this?
Re: Sforza Castle Cards
2You can read Novati's 1908 article in Il libro e la stampa online at the Emeroteca Digitale
http://emeroteca.braidense.it/eva/indic ... colo=14748
(and download it too, of course)
He doesn't seem to mention the ADM initials on the Mars back.
http://emeroteca.braidense.it/eva/indic ... colo=14748
(and download it too, of course)
He doesn't seem to mention the ADM initials on the Mars back.
Re: Sforza Castle Cards
3Thank you Ross! If I am not missing something, Novati does not seem to even mention Mars, I wonder why.
In the last footnote, he says that many illustrations of Ariosto are similar to the "Ruggero and Angelica" card back. He refers to a 1603 Valgrisi edition, which I could not find.
I attach the two illustrations of Ariosto's XI Canto I have found on google books (1566 and 1656).
In the last footnote, he says that many illustrations of Ariosto are similar to the "Ruggero and Angelica" card back. He refers to a 1603 Valgrisi edition, which I could not find.
I attach the two illustrations of Ariosto's XI Canto I have found on google books (1566 and 1656).
Re: Sforza Castle Cards
4Ross and I have been discussing these cards and I think it's time to reactivate a good discussion on them as they are full of interesting tidbits and mysteries!
Let's see if I can upload Dummett's comments as a pdf.
Let's see if I can upload Dummett's comments as a pdf.
Re: Sforza Castle Cards
5Disclaimer: I've always been interested in the Sforza Castle World Card because I believe that early Tarot de Marseille cards didn't have Titles or Numbers. My posts will be focused on that aspect because that is the piece that fascinates me.
This suggestion is somewhat supported by the Cary Sheet and the Sforza World card as two examples of Tarot de Marseille (at least related) patterns without the titles or numbers on them.
It's my belief that there are indications in the Tarot de Marseille Type 1 decks like the Payen and Dodal that show the process of adding the titles and numbers to what appear to be woodblocks that originally didn't have them on them. It's also part of my belief that the Noblet and Vieville didn't use pre-existing woodcut block but rather redrew them, but did so at a time when they were aware of what the cards looked like without the interference of the titles and numbers. When naming names above, I don't necessarily mean THAT deck created THEN by THAT deckmaker, its possible that Noblet is a copy of a previous deck that did the redrawing (like the Heri, for example) just like Payen and Dodal are probably copies of something rather than directly one another. It might make more sense to discuss this in a different thread, but for now at least, let's see how this goes.
Right, now that that's out of the way.
This suggestion is somewhat supported by the Cary Sheet and the Sforza World card as two examples of Tarot de Marseille (at least related) patterns without the titles or numbers on them.
It's my belief that there are indications in the Tarot de Marseille Type 1 decks like the Payen and Dodal that show the process of adding the titles and numbers to what appear to be woodblocks that originally didn't have them on them. It's also part of my belief that the Noblet and Vieville didn't use pre-existing woodcut block but rather redrew them, but did so at a time when they were aware of what the cards looked like without the interference of the titles and numbers. When naming names above, I don't necessarily mean THAT deck created THEN by THAT deckmaker, its possible that Noblet is a copy of a previous deck that did the redrawing (like the Heri, for example) just like Payen and Dodal are probably copies of something rather than directly one another. It might make more sense to discuss this in a different thread, but for now at least, let's see how this goes.
Right, now that that's out of the way.
Re: Sforza Castle Cards
6Dummett (Emphasis mine):
A set of six cards which includes one Tarot trump (Figs. 22, 23, 24, 25). The backs of three of these cards show an elaborate design depicting a warrior and a naked woman, identified by Novati as Ruggero and Angelica, with Cupid above them aiming his bow. The design is framed in a border, not as wide as that in the classical deities set, patterned with lozenge-shaped dots and folding over to form a border for the face of the card. The remaining three cards have lost their back designs and, consequently, the borders on their faces, but the correspondence of their measurements with those of the cards whose backs remain leaves no doubt that all six belong to the same pack. These cards are the largest of all those found at the Castello: Novati gives their measurements as 68 x 138 mm, and the comparisons I have made suggest that this may be a slight underestimate, the actual values being about 69 x 141 mm. The three cards with back designs are the 6 of Swords and the 6 of Coins, both virtually intact, and the 7 of Swords, which is badly damaged and of which about two-thirds survives. The other three are the 8 of Batons, of which the face is well preserved and nearly intact, the World, of which the face is intact but rather damaged, and the 9 of Swords, well preserved but badly torn. The five numeral cards again exactly correspond to their Tarot de Marseille counterparts, with the same exception that they lack any inscribed numerals at the sides (or elsewhere).
The World shows the same design as in the Tarot de Marseille, of a naked female figure within an oval wreath, with the symbols of the four Evangelists in the corners of the card, outside the wreath, placed as on the Tarot de Marseille card. The figure is plumper and much better drawn than in the Tarot de Marseille; her left leg is bent, but does not extend behind her right leg, which is straight. She appears to have a cloak hanging down behind her, but the details are difficult to make out. There is no inscription at the bottom giving the name of the card. On the three cards without backs, the face designs are enclosed in a rectangular frame: the frame can also be seen on all three cards whose backs are preserved, but only in places where the border is missing; it is evident that the frame was supposed to be covered up by the border folded over from the back. This makes it puzzling that the World does have an inscribed Roman numeral XXI, but above the frame at the top of the card; it would therefore have been covered by the border. Novati assigns this pack to the late 16th century; I should be more inclined to date it to the 17th. In any case, it is surely Milanese.
Re: Sforza Castle Cards
7A comparison between the Dodal, Sforza Castle, Conver, Vieville and Noblet.
Of particular interest are the four evangelists, especially the ones at the bottom with how much of the body is depicted.
The Sforza also has an aspect I can't explain... the face of the Bull is cut off, and I have no explanation for that.
Of particular interest are the four evangelists, especially the ones at the bottom with how much of the body is depicted.
The Sforza also has an aspect I can't explain... the face of the Bull is cut off, and I have no explanation for that.
Re: Sforza Castle Cards
8Detail of print at the British Musuem, dated 1507 :marco wrote: 21 Nov 2011, 20:46 In particular, I have noticed that in the bottom left corner of Marte, at the back of the 10 of coins, the "ADM" acronym appears. Is it a signature? Which hypotheses have been made about this?
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collectio ... 4-0804-349
Last edited by SteveM on 20 Apr 2025, 18:19, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Sforza Castle Cards
9It is classified as Italian, and for some reason identified with the monogramist FA , with style Ferrarese or Bolgnese. It appears to be copied after this classical model:
Re: Sforza Castle Cards
10There is another print with monogram ADM at the BM:
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collectio ... 00-1019-27
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collectio ... 00-1019-27