cards in England 1413 ????

1
It is worth here mentioning that playing cards are notably absent from my account, but that is only because they are notably absent from the works of Chaucer, and the first reference to playing cards in England is not until 1413. We read in the household accounts of Edmund Mortimer that he regularly lost at various games, losing over £157 in total during his travels with Henry V between September 1413 and April 1414, and one of the games at which he regularly lost was cards.
http://hwaettheswyve.blogspot.com/2010/ ... -pies.html

Does anybody know something about this ?

The usual date for England's first playing cards is given with 1463 ...

Edmund Mortimer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Mor ... l_of_March
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: cards in England 1413 ????

2
http://www.susanhigginbotham.com/Mediev ... htm#_edn18
Plantagenets at Play: Medieval Gambling
"This is the text of a presentation I did for the Richard III Society's Annual General Meeting in October 2009 in Las Vegas—hence the subject matter!"
Author: Susan Higginbotham http://www.susanhigginbotham.com/
Edmund Mortimer, Earl of March, was uncle to Richard, Duke of York, and therefore a great-uncle of Edward IV and Richard III. He had a good claim to the throne and for that reason, Henry IV and Henry V kept a close eye on him. In the period from September 1413 to April 1414, the twenty-three-year-old was traveling in the company of Henry V—and losing over 157 pounds in gaming. Mortimer’s companions must have been delighted when the young lord proposed a game of chance, because the word perdebat—“lost”—occurs with distressing frequency in his household accounts. Mortimer lost at tables, raffle and chance, a game called devant (apparently a dicing game)—and at cards.[18]

Despite Mortimer’s enthusiasm for cards, it would be decades before another mention of them occurs in English sources. That is in 1459 in the Paston letters, where Margaret Paston reports that over Christmas, a widowed acquaintance forbade the members of her household to engage in dancing, harping, luting, singing, or “loud disports,” but permitted them to play tables, chess, and cards.[19]

[18] Woolgar, Household Accounts, pp. 592-94.
= C. M. Woolgar, ed., Household Accounts from Medieval England, Part 2. Oxford University Press, 1993.

[19] Parlett, p. 46; Paston Letters, vol. vi, 78-79. Gairdner dates the letter in 1484, but as Parlett points out, it appears to be from an earlier time.
= David Parlett, The Oxford Guide to Card Games. Oxford University Press, 1990
collected at http://trionfi.com/0/p/45
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: cards in England 1413 ????

7
robert wrote:If you can find it here, I probably have access to it. Just let me know what you want..
http://solo.ouls.ox.ac.uk/primo_library ... /search.do
http://solo.ouls.ox.ac.uk/primo_library ... &scp.scps=

C. M. Woolgar, ed., Household Accounts from Medieval England, Part 2. Oxford University Press, 1993

Pages 592 - 594 as a scan and perhaps a look, if any important outside references to these pages are elsewhere in the text.
Perhaps another look in the register, if there's anything else about playing cards.
Huck
http://trionfi.com