Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:Note that 924 (8 November) has an entry for two packs as well (possibly one of our duplicates, I haven't checked).

Yes, a duplicat.
Thanks for the pages ... Gherardo da Vicenza had indeed a lot of commissions.

I remember, that there was a letter from Galeazzo to his father, where he reported about card playing in Ferrara. Did we got meanwhile something about this letter?

Wow, ask and you shall receive! Thanks, Ross. I'll look at them.
About Galeazzo's letter, Huck, I don't know what sources Trionfi has, but Lubkin (A Renaissance Court, p. 309), says:

When the young Galeazzo was in Ferrara, he had played cards and tennis with Francesco Pico della Mirandola when it rained (see e.g. Galeazzo to Duke Francesco, 2 Aug. 1457, Belriguardo, ASMi, AS, c. 1461.

Here ASMi means "Archivio di Stato, Milan" and AS means "Archivio (Ducale) Sforzesco (c.: cartella number)"

Well, I'm not so used to handle with libraries. How would you get such an item?

Huck wrote:Well, I'm not so used to handle with libraries. How would you get such an item?

I dimly remember it was published somewhere, but I can't find it yet.

It should be possible to get a copy of the pages from the archives here -
http://archiviodistatomilano.it/guida-o ... IBA002437/

Since they are all on microfilm -
http://archiviodistatomilano.it/patrimo ... microfilm/

And they make reproductions -
http://archiviodistatomilano.it/servizi ... roduzione/

Form to fill out -
http://archiviodistatomilano.it/uploads ... gitali.pdf

Another argument for dating the PMB deck arround 1451 is the king of spades. Here is, probably, Francesco Sforza. In the shield is the lion of Venice, as Francesco has just condottiero for them. If the deck its made later, for example in 1453, probably he dont like the lyon in the shield because the war with venetian is very hard.
. In addition, there is another important detail. In 1456, the Pope give Francesco the Golden Rose, the highest award of the Church. Sforza is very happy for this Rose. If the deck was made after 1454, probably would have been included in this card.

mmfilesi wrote:Another argument for dating the PMB deck arround 1451 is the king of spades. Here is, probably, Francesco Sforza. In the shield is the lion of Venice, as Francesco has just condottiero for them. If the deck its made later, for example in 1453, probably he dont like the lyon in the shield because the war with venetian is very hard.

In addition, there is another important detail. In 1456, the Pope give Francesco the Golden Rose, the highest award of the Church. Sforza is very happy for this Rose. If the deck was made after 1454, probably would have been included in this card.

Hm ... you think, that Francesco had been Condottiero for Venice in 1451? I would assume, that his time as Condottiero was done then.
In December 1449 he revolted against Venice, in February 1450 he took Milan (against interest of Venice) and in March he was made duke. In August 1452 he had new war with Venice. It seems, that Venice and Milan/Sforza hadn't too bad relations in 1451, all expected that some peace would stand for some time, but calling him him a condottiero for Venice seems to go too far. There was likely some oodwilling diplomacy between Marcello, Renee d'Anjou and Sforza during this time, but the situation stranded with military actions of Sforza and Renee together against Venice in late 1453. The alliance was not really successful or well doing, and Renee departed disappointed, and anyway, the peace of Lodi finished this scenario.

He had a lion in his own heraldic.

Yes, that was trying to say in my English. So I say that should be made arround 1451 and not later. The wars of 1452-1454 against Venice are very strong.

***

He had a lion in his own heraldic.

But is the lion of Venezia, no?

mmfilesi wrote:
But is the lion of Venezia, no?

Muzio Attendola, Francesco's father, got a lion with a "Quitte" (in German) as an heraldic device by German King Ruprecht, these are small yellow fruits, which look like apples.

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cydonia_oblonga
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_of_Germany

Though, I don't remember to have found much evidence for the use of this symbol ... or I've overlooked it, I didn't cared too much.

Good eye, mmfilesi; I hadn't noticed the lion.

You could just as well argue for a time after April 9, 1454, and the treaty of Lodi. However relations between Sforza and Venice were never good, even in peacetime.

In favor of the shield's having a Venetian lion is the book. Most lion heraldics didn't have them. Venice's sometimes did, because of the association to Mark and his gospel. However Venice always showed the book open. And Venice's lion didn't paw the book while standing on two legs. And if Venice was meant, you'd think there would be some indication of wings.

So I think the heraldic is just one made up for the card, with perhaps some vague legitimacy, if anyone challenged, from Muzio's lion. It might be there mainly for its symbolism. A closed book indicates counsel, according to one website (http://www.americancollegeofheraldry.or ... mbols.html). A lion represents courage. It also was a typical heraldic of the German lords who elected the Emperor. E.g. it features prominently on the seal of the Golden Bull of 1356 (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Golden_Bull_of_1356). Even the Gonzaga of Mantua had a lion heraldic, from the emperor in 1398 (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... zaga03.svg). Francesco very much wanted to be considered a lord of the Empire--not an elector, just an emperor-appointed duke.

Another possibility is that the King of Swords might be a representation of Francesco's son Galeazzo, the duke-to-be. He of course was a quasi-Visconti, through his mother; as a blood relative to a hereditary duke of the Empire, he might have had a better claim to dukeship than Francesco. So the shield might be a reminder to Galeazzo and his brothers to be courageous, to both give and seek counsel (notably from their parents), and to continue trying to be recognized as a legitimate duke of the Empire--a struggle that was eventually successful.

mikeh wrote:Good eye, mmfilesi; I hadn't noticed the lion.

I read it in some place... maybe in Kaplan.

mikeh wrote: In favor of the shield's having a Venetian lion is the book. Most lion heraldics didn't have them. Venice's sometimes did, because of the association to Mark and his gospel. However Venice always showed the book open. And Venice's lion didn't paw the book while standing on two legs. And if Venice was meant, you'd think there would be some indication of wings.

Its a good argument, friend.

mikeh wrote:
Another possibility is that the King of Swords might be a representation of Francesco's son Galeazzo,

mmm... I think is Francesco, as the king in white horse in the triumph of justice.