Phaeded wrote: 07 Sep 2022, 01:10
Anyone not barking up the Tree of Life can clearly see the 22 trump deck: The PMB only has two missing trumps - the Devil and the Tower. Only you believe the PMB's 6 replacement cards didn't have originals. The clear consensus is this was a 22 trump deck - anything else is pure fringe theory. Filling in the blanks for only 2 trumps is no leap of faith. Between the CVI and EE - both of which predate the 1480s - also have many of these trumps. Exemplars for all 22 trumps (the 'CVI' provides the "Tower") except for the Devil existed
before the 1480s. Someone simply mapped the Hebrew alphabet onto the 22 trumps - not the other way around. The list of charlatans associated with that endeavor speaks volumes.
Phaeded,
Hm ... as far I know, I'm not barking about the tree of life and also I can view the 22 trump deck, as it is in clear existence after the first REAL protagonists, which get the attribute "clear evidence" later than 1486.
Right, the PMB1 (14 trump cards) and PMB2 (6 added trumps cards) would have 22 trumps, if the MISSING trumps Devil and Tower would be there, but MISSING means "missing", so we have in the addition 14 +6 the value 20 as a result and NOT 22. That doesn't fill the category "clear evidence" in my perception, perhaps in yours, as you speak of a "clear consensus", but a clear consensus exist, if there are no contradicting voices, but these exist.
If you mix various deck Trionfi card fragments together and you claim, that you get this imagined golden number 22, but in reality you get much more, if you count in this mix also specific trump motifs of Michelino deck and Cary-Yale and Boiardo Tarocchi and Sola Busca and these Goldschmidt/Guildhall cards and not to forget the Minchiate additions.
You (and much others before you) blow up this frog "22 trumps" up to manifest your (and that of the earlier others) theory as a fact, with it isn't. As a historical theory about the origin of the Tarot cards it earns some respect, but as "clear evidence" and "clear consensus" it makes a bad and overstretched figure.
Dummett, Decker and Depaulis claimed 1996 in a 3-authors-union, that the general Tarot structure was ready in c. 1450. Since 1996 then there were a lot of changes in the history of Tarot, something which is better called a history of the Trionfi cards. There were massive changes in the last 26 years. Dummett in his late years started to rethink the statement.
For your statement about charlatans and mapping Hebrew alphabeth on trumps: I didn't discuss the activities of Tarot researchers in 19th century. I wrote about Boiardo and Pico.
I wrote earlier longer articles about the possible existence of decks with 20 trumps before the Boiardo poem, perhaps you didn't get them.
https://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=161451
Well this was long ago and is possibly not at the momentary state.
And nothing about the information I provided about sortes? I'll move that at all events - certainly does not belong under this subject line.
I'd addressed in my post directed to Glenn the lot books with 22 animals and 22 kings for the reason, that Glenn wasn't informed about them (Glenn had shown an interest in older objects with a 22-scheme). With your attempt to contribute something to lot books you didn't meet the point.
I'm still not informed, what do you wanted to express with the term "crackpot" 2 posts ago ... shall this have been the unlucky experiment to make a joke, which failed completely? Perhaps you can explain this .... ????