Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?
Posted: 24 Jul 2022, 16:55
Huck wrote: 24 Jul 2022, 04:52 Beside that, Capella is too early to help really in the problem of the 12-Olympians in 14th century Italy.
Over 500 years of history in 78 cards
https://forum.tarothistory.com/
Huck wrote: 24 Jul 2022, 04:52 Beside that, Capella is too early to help really in the problem of the 12-Olympians in 14th century Italy.
And to point out the obvious, this is not an in situ fresco project, but cards. Was Bembo in Pavia/Milan or in his studio in Cremona for the PMB? Most would say the latter. It simply wouldn't have mattered where Michelino painted the deck.Ross Caldwell wrote: 24 Jul 2022, 09:28....Huck wrote: 24 Jul 2022, 04:52 When Franco wrote his articles (1989) he suggested 1414, cause a title mentioned in the text of the Marziano text. Filippo Maria got this in 1414.
We raised that to 1418, cause there was outside knowledge, that Michelino wasn't in Milan before 1418.
In other words, Michelino did not have be in Milan for Filippo Maria to have commissioned a deck of cards from him.
Reclamations directly to the authors or via Jupiter. It's a pity that the world isn't that, what you expected.Nothing about the planet's swift revolution about the sun. And where is the slowest and highest planet in Marziano, Saturn??? I'm too embarrassed to address this completely unfounded idea of the planets in Marziano any further.
What is intriguing are the numbers noted above - 56 questions could be related to a 56 card deck. More intriguing, is the 16 questions answered by 16 kings (not the 12 kings noted above, unless 4 of the kings are depicted twice to answer two questions each) in the Prenostica Socratis Basilei, in Wencelaus's MS 2352 noted in more detail below, and its potential relationship of that to Marziano's work.The Latin term sortes is used in modern academia to refer to a textual genre which the Western European vernacular languages call “lot book” (German: “Losbuch”; Dutch: “lot boek”) or “book of sorts” (French: “livre de sorts”; Spanish: “libro de (las) suertes”; Italian: “libro delle sorti”); in English, this type of texts is also called “a book of fate” or “a book of fortune”. In medieval times, the terms sortes and sortilegium could be used in this narrow sense, but were also used to refer to all kinds of sortition and cleromancy. In fact, sortes texts are, in their general structure, comparable to other texts on sortileges, like Mantic Alphabets and geomantic tables but, although they share common features, the sortes form a separate genre and belong to a different tradition (Heiles 2018, 89–126; Lemaitre-Provost 2010, 49–56).There are two types of sortes texts: sortes without questions or “colecciones libres”, as Montero Cartelle (Montero Cartelle and Alsonso Guardo 2004, 20–31) calls them, and sortes with questions or “collectiones dirigidas” (Heiles 2018, 39–68; Luijendijk and Klingshirn 2019, 27). Both types provide a number of independent sayings and possess a special layout structure that makes it possible to read only one of these sayings selected through a random process. In its simplest form, a sortes without questions text is divided into 56 paragraphs and the reader is guided by a dice roll. The reader of the Sortes Sanctorum, a Latin sortes text written in late-antique Gaul and transmitted until the fifteenth century, for example, requires the reader to roll three dice and sort them by number. He then needs to look for a paragraph marked with his combination, e. g. 6–6–4. In this lucky case, he would be informed: “C.C.IIII. Deus te adiuvabit de quo cupis. Deum roga, cito perveniens ad quod desid-eras” (Sortes Sanctorum, eds. Montero Cartelle and Alsonso Guardo, 70) / 6–6–4 “God will help you regarding what you desire. Ask God, soon you will achieve what you wish.” While these texts make only unspecific declarations, the sortes with questions provide detailed answers to a given set of questions. The Prenostica Socratis Basilei, a twelfth-century Latin translation of Arabic sortes, for example, give a list of 16 questions. These sortes can tell the reader, inter alia, if it is a good idea to take a wife or not, if a captive will escape, if a pregnant woman will give birth to a boy or a girl, or if lost property will be recovered. Here, the reader must randomly select a number between two and ten (or between one and nine in older versions of the text), by creating a line of points without counting them, by turning a wheel, which will point to a number, or by throwing two dice (if the figure obtained exceeds number nine, this amount is subtracted). The result determines the answer. A table and set of diagrams lead the reader to his answer spoken by one of twelve kings. If the reader wishes to know, whether he should marry, and if his number is 10, the king of the Tatars would give him a clear answer: Caveas tibi ab uxore (Prenostica Socratis Basilei, eds. Montero Car-telle and Alonso Guardo, 234) – “Beware of the wife.” (Heiles, Marco. "Sortes". Prognostication in the Medieval World: A Handbook, edited by Matthias Heiduk, Klaus Herbers and Hans-Christian Lehner, Berlin, Boston: De Gruyter, 2020: 978-983, 978).
The 3 January 1444 arrest and fining of two men for playing charte a trionfi in the San Simone district suggests that the game did not have such high origins as with the (still living) Chancellor of Florence. Rather, it had obscure origins and its legal status was apparently not settled until 1450.Phaeded wrote: 04 Jun 2022, 22:40 I'm not proposing him for the ur-tarot (for which I suggest Bruni)
Recently Michael and me attempted to find out, if the biographies of Bruni (about Dante and Petrarca in 1434-36) and of Manetti (about Dante, Petrarca and Boccaccio in 1440) contain a hint on the work "Trionfi" by Petrarca. The research had a negative result, we were not able to find something.Ross Caldwell wrote: 07 Jan 2023, 10:18 The 3 January 1444 arrest and fining of two men for playing charte a trionfi in the San Simone district suggests that the game did not have such high origins as with the (still living) Chancellor of Florence. Rather, it had obscure origins and its legal status was apparently not settled until 1450.
Since 1442 we can observe, that playing card sales go down till c1447, observable by the records of the 2 silk dealers. The Trionfi prohibitions in 1444 fill the picture.In 1438 St. Bernardine was appointed vicar-general for the Strict Observance (one of the two branches of the Franciscans). Himself and St. John Capistran (who succeeded him as vicar) were the two olive trees of the Reform which repaired the falling house of St. Francis. At the time of Bernardine’s admission to the Order there were only 130 Observant friars in Italy; at his death they numbered over 4000. He also founded, or reformed, at least three hundred convents.
After five years he obtained a discharge from his office, and returned to preaching in northern and central Italy.
http://www.traditionalcatholic.co/st-be ... -of-italy/
I'm not sure of your point, or how it addresses what I've said to Phaeded, which is part of a longer discussion between us.Huck wrote: 09 Jan 2023, 21:19 Recently Michael and me attempted to find out, if the biographies of Bruni (about Dante and Petrarca in 1434-36) and of Manetti (about Dante, Petrarca and Boccaccio in 1440) contain a hint on the work "Trionfi" by Petrarca. The research had a negative result, we were not able to find something.
What does it tell us?
In October 1441 we have in Florence a literary contest. Latin texts win, vernacular texts lose. Leon Battista Alberti is very disappointed. The "Trionfi" of Petrarca is a vernacular text.
What does it tell us? And so on
It was a prearranged victory for the conservative party, and Alberti, who had shown his engagement, wasn't happy about it.Ross Caldwell wrote: 10 Jan 2023, 14:36 I'm not sure of your point, or how it addresses what I've said to Phaeded, which is part of a longer discussion between us.
But the part of your statement I have put in bold is wrong: there were no Latin texts recited at the Certame coronario, whose entire purpose was to elevate vernacular verse. No texts at all "won," either; the silver laurel crown was laid on the altar of Santa Maria del Fiore, as if "crowning" the cathedral itself.
In connection with Alberti and the Certame coronario, which has recently become relevant to me, I just read this paper by Brian Maxson, "The Certame coronario as Performative Ritual." https://www.academia.edu/26020071/The_C ... ive_Ritual
Maxson interprets the event, held on 22 October 1441, in the light of the marriage of Bianca Maria Visconti and Francesco Sforza, which occurred two days later. It's quite an astonishing insight. His argument is that the Florentines hoped that the wedding was a herald of lasting peace, finally, between Milan and Florence, while the Certame coronario itself, whose theme was "true friendship," reflected the hope of civic reconciliation within the city.
Piero was 25 and Alberti with his rebellious spirit was 37. Alberti likely worked already on his Momus or on his Interceniales, both written in a satirical spirit.The Certame coronario was a vernacular poetry competition conceived in 1441 in Florence by Leon Battista Alberti, with the patronage of Piero di Medici.
...
An anonymous protest was addressed to the jury , probably attributable to Alberti himself, in which he criticized the conservative position of traditional humanistic culture, notoriously adverse to the vernacular. The fact that the crown had not been assigned to any of the competing poets, in fact, testifies that the rehabilitation of the vernacular was not yet fully mature; however the coronary Certame is an indication of an irreversible trend now underway.
Alberti had accompanied Pope Eugen from Rome to Florence in 1434 and left with him in 1443With his fifty Intercenales, the Italian humanist Leon Battista Alberti (1404–1472) created a Neo-Latin masterpiece of short prose pieces that were very varied in theme and style. Classified according to one's point of view as 'dramatic' dialogues, miniature comedies, fables, short stories, novellas, letters, satires, invectives, etc., Alberti probably compiled them into 'prose poetry books' in 1443. The authors show how Alberti's Latin 'Table Talks' combine a high level of linguistic virtuosity, conceptual precision and psychological insight (which sometimes takes on the auto-psychoanalytic traits of a traumatized outsider) with sophisticated layers of the reception of antiquity, which kaleidoscopically generate ever new dimensions of meaning. A disillusioned and unsparing, often astonishingly up-to-date worldview that is nevertheless rooted in the Italian early Renaissance speaks from these often symbolically and allegorically encoded gems, which question traditional ethical and aesthetic value hierarchies with the verve of an Angry Young Man.
*****************At the beginning of spring, the Piccinino was the first to enter the field. He attacked Cignano, a castle twelve miles from Brescia, which the Sforza came to his aid, whereupon the two captains waged war against each other in the usual manner. As the Count was concerned about Bergamo, he moved before Martinengo, which castle was in such a position that after its capture he could easily give help to that city hard pressed by Niccolò. Niccolò Piccinino, who realized that the enemy could only attack him from this side, had fortified the castle in every way, so that the Sforza found it necessary to use all his might to besiege it. Then Niccolò took up a position with his army where he cut off the enemy's supply and secured himself with ditches and bastions in such a way that he could only attack him with obvious danger. Now the besiegers were in a worse position than the besieged. For the count could not continue the encirclement because of the lack of provisions, and just as little could he break camp because of the danger threatening the enemy, so that decisive victory was imminent for the duke, and complete ruin for the Venetians and the Sforza.
Fortune, however, which has no lack of means of favoring friends and harming enemies, caused Piccinino's ambition and arrogance to increase in anticipation of this victory to such an extent that he lost sight of all consideration for the duke as well as for himself sat. He informed the Visconti that, having served so long under his banners, he had not yet acquired enough land to bury himself in, so he now wanted to know what reward awaited him for his efforts. For it was in his power to subject the whole of Lombardy to him and to hand over all his enemies, and since he thought he could expect sure reward for a certain victory, he demanded the cession of the city of Piacenza, so that after so long he could tired of campaigns, could rest at times. In the end he did not hesitate to threaten the duke that he would give up the enterprise if he did not agree to his request. This insulting and high-spirited manner so wounded and angered the Visconti that he decided to give up the expected advantages rather than to do Piccinino his will. He, whom so many dangers and threats from the enemies did not bring to a change of heart, did so because of the arrogance of his friends. Deciding to be on good terms with the Count, he sent Antonio Guidobuono of Tortona to him and offered him his daughter's hand and terms of peace, which he and his allies gladly accepted.
This being secretly concluded, the duke sent word to Piccinino that he should make a truce with the count for a year, pretending that the expenses of the war weighed so heavily on him that he could not give up a secure peace for the sake of a doubtful victory. Niccolò was amazed at this decision, since he did not understand what made the duke renounce such a glorious victory and it did not occur to him that, in order not to reward his friends, he wanted to save his enemies . He therefore opposed this plan as much as he could, until, in order to put him to rest, the duke was compelled to threaten him that, if he resisted, he would give him as booty to his soldiers and to the enemy. Then the Piccinino, in the same mood as one who is forced to leave home and friends, obeyed, and bemoaned his adverse fate, in which sometimes luck, sometimes the duke, snatched victory from him. After the armistice was concluded, Francesco Sforza married Madonna Bianca and the city of Cremona was given to him as a dowry. Peace was then concluded in November 1441, for the Venetians by Francesco Barbarigo and Paolo Trono, for the Florentines by Messer Agnolo Acciaiuoli. The Venetians acquired Peschiera, Asola and Leonato, castles belonging to the Marquis of Mantua.
https://www.wga.hu/bio_m/g/giorgio/biograph.htmlPasti, Matteo de’
(b Verona, c. 1420; d Rimini, after 15 May 1467). Italian medallist, architect, painter and illuminator. He came from a good Veronese family (his father was a doctor, two of his brothers were in the church and three others were merchants). He is first documented in 1441, when he was working in Venice as painter to Piero di Cosimo de’ Medici illustrating Petrarch’s Trionfi (untraced). Subsequently (1444–6), he worked as an illuminator for the Este court, under the direction of Giorgio d’Alemagna.
GIORGIO D'ALEMAGNA
(b. ca. 1415, Modena, d. 1479, Modena)
Italian illuminator, probably of German descent. He is documented from 1441 to 1462 in the Este court at Ferrara, working first under Lionello d'Este, Marchese of Ferrara, and then Borso d'Este. He was granted citizenship of Ferrara in 1462. His earliest documented works were executed in Ferrara, where in 1445-48 he participated in the decoration of a Breviary for Lionello d'Este (dismembered, private collection). His illuminations for a Missal for Borso d'Este (Ms. lat. 239, Biblioteca Estense, Modena) were executed between 1449 and 1457.
In 1453 he decorated the Spagna in Rima (Ms. Cl.II 132, Biblioteca Comunale Ariostea, Ferrara). The stylistic relationship between this work, the Missal and the Breviary is problematic. Some scholars attribute only the Spagna in Rima to Giorgio, assigning the other works to an anonymous Master of the Missal of Borso d'Este. In Lionello's Breviary, Giorgio worked in a Late Gothic Emilian style similar to that of the anonymous frescoes at Vignola painted for Niccolò III d'Este.
After 1450 his style took on Renaissance characteristics. In the Missal, Giorgio showed familiarity with the art of Francesco Squarcione and Donatello as transmitted through the work of Michele Pannonio, then active in Ferrara. He also knew the work of Piero della Francesca, who in 1451 was in Rimini and later in Ferrara. Giorgio's stylistic vocabulary recalls that of his contemporary Taddeo Crivelli and also the early works of Cosimo Tura.
Giorgio's illuminations are of remarkably high quality; the drawing is clear and lively, with Late Gothic rhythms that give a dynamic quality to the figures and an intense expressiveness to the faces. The landscapes are characteristically fantastic: full of pointed rocks, hills and coloured stones, within a fine, carefully worked out colour scheme.
His son, Martino di Giorgio d'Alemagna (Martino da Modena), was also illuminator.
Source: G. MILANESI, Lettere di artisti italiani del secolo XIV e XV, in «Il Buonarroti», II, IV, Roma 1869, pp. 78Spetabilis ac maior honorande. Per questa mia vi fo noto come io ho inparato da’ poi ch’io son a Vinisia cossa che al vostro lavoro non poria essere cossa più singulare, come saranoν e questa cossa è oro masinato, ch’io lo dipigno come ogni altro colore, e ivi cominciato ad ornare questi che son fatti per modo che non vedesti mai sì fatta cossaέ Quelle verdure son tutte tochate d’oromasinato ch’è fatto mille ricamuci a quelle damiselle. Si che caramente vi priegho, che vui mi vogliate mandare la fantasia degli altri, a ciò ch’io ve li conpischaν e s’elvi piace ch’io vi mandi nquesti, io velli manderòν si che comandatime quello vi piace ch’io facia, ch’i o son pronto a ubedirvi in qualunque cossa a vui sia grata. E caramente vi priegho, che vui mi vogliate perdonare di quello ch’io ho fatto, perché vui sapete che mi fu forzia a fare quello ch’io feciέ Si che terminate come piaze avui, s’el vi piaze, mandatime ch’io facia quello della fama, perch’io ho la fantasia, salvo non so, se quella dona che sede, la volete in camora (gamurra) di piciolato, o pur di manto, come a me piacesseμ el resto so tutto quello v’à andare, cioè el caro tira 4 liofanti: e si non so se vui volete scudieri e damiselle driedo, o pur omeni famosi vechiμ si che avisatime di tutto, perch’io farò una bella cossa, per modo chesarete contentoέ E perdonateme tutto, e valerà più un di questi ch’io farò hora, che non valle tutti queste che son fatti. Si che fatime tanta gratia: dignative di farmi risposta, e de essere contento ch’io vi conpischa, a ciò che vui vediate una cossa che mai a questo modo non la vidisti fornita di hora (sic, leggi: oro) masinato, comesarà questa. A vui mi ricomando. Data in Vinesa a di 24, 1441. Per lo vostrominimo servitore Matteo di Pasti – S. (scrisse). A vui se ari comand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_venetoContinuing the ancient Roman custom, the Venetian year began on 1 March, which was celebrated as the New Year's Day festival (Capodanno).