Re: What are the documents for Marziano's dates?
Posted: 27 Nov 2019, 13:12
I haven' t followed this thread since it's beginning so maybe you ve already looked at this old inquiry
Oren Margolis in The Politics of Culture in Quattrocento Europe: René of Anjou in Italy
pp 110 114 writes, but with some fancies I believe, this story :
"The idea of the gift {to Isabelle de Lorraine] would have come from Scipine Carafa
who stopped at the Venetian Sforza camp outside Milan on his return from Charles VII 's court.
Marcello, Sforza and Giovanni, the core of the Croissant in Italy, were all three together at this time. Carafa came across a deck of cards during his visit to the camp and told Marcello that this sort of gift was perfect for René's wife; Not satisfied with the deck however, Marcello somehow managed to obtain the Visconti xards from inside the city (Milan). He also have the treatise on "tarot" (sic) by Marziano da Tortona that accompagnied them transcribed by Michele Salvatico, a proeminent Venice based scribe, and, on 12 november 1449, dispathched these to Provence (sic). He sent them by means of the man who happened to be his house guest : non other than King René right hand man, Giovanni Cossa.
This combination of prearranged gify with the intentionnal explotation of valuable network channels was a practice that Marcello will soon make all his own".
https://books.google.fr/books?id=GejnCw ... ds&f=false
(My initial interest at time was more about an hypothetic indirect PROVENCE connection via Cossa and not directly to ANJOU ...: "and, on 12 november 1449, dispathched these to Provence (sic). He sent them by means of the man who happened to be his house guest : non other than King René right hand man, Giovanni Cossa.")
Quid of Scipine Carafa?
"The idea of the gift {to Isabelle de Lorraine] would have come from Scipine Carafa
who stopped at the Venetian Sforza camp outside Milan on his return from Charles VII 's court.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=691&p=18013&hilit=broi+rene#p18013
Huck had answered :
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=691&hilit=broi+ren ... 110#p18114
I'd explained the situation, and asked, when all three were together, possibly also Scipio.
Huck questionned the author and got this answer :
"I also mention the three men in the camp on p. 53, and discuss some other aspects of their relationship in that first chapter which might be of interest to you. But the other place you should look is Margaret King's book, The Death of the Child Valerio Marcello (1994), where she reconstructs many aspects of the chronology of Marcello's career and the careers of his friends."
Huck concluded :
I don't have page 53 and I don't have the introduction. And I doubt, that he knows the date, when Scipio Caraffa was in the camp.
Huck' closes the topic with the link to Margaret King's book :
https://books.google.de/books?id=RdWeII ... io&f=false
Nota : the thread then documents data about
1. the Crescent Order
2. the 1479 command of luxuous cards (hand painted?) decks for King René...
Oren Margolis in The Politics of Culture in Quattrocento Europe: René of Anjou in Italy
pp 110 114 writes, but with some fancies I believe, this story :
"The idea of the gift {to Isabelle de Lorraine] would have come from Scipine Carafa
who stopped at the Venetian Sforza camp outside Milan on his return from Charles VII 's court.
Marcello, Sforza and Giovanni, the core of the Croissant in Italy, were all three together at this time. Carafa came across a deck of cards during his visit to the camp and told Marcello that this sort of gift was perfect for René's wife; Not satisfied with the deck however, Marcello somehow managed to obtain the Visconti xards from inside the city (Milan). He also have the treatise on "tarot" (sic) by Marziano da Tortona that accompagnied them transcribed by Michele Salvatico, a proeminent Venice based scribe, and, on 12 november 1449, dispathched these to Provence (sic). He sent them by means of the man who happened to be his house guest : non other than King René right hand man, Giovanni Cossa.
This combination of prearranged gify with the intentionnal explotation of valuable network channels was a practice that Marcello will soon make all his own".
https://books.google.fr/books?id=GejnCw ... ds&f=false
(My initial interest at time was more about an hypothetic indirect PROVENCE connection via Cossa and not directly to ANJOU ...: "and, on 12 november 1449, dispathched these to Provence (sic). He sent them by means of the man who happened to be his house guest : non other than King René right hand man, Giovanni Cossa.")
Quid of Scipine Carafa?
"The idea of the gift {to Isabelle de Lorraine] would have come from Scipine Carafa
who stopped at the Venetian Sforza camp outside Milan on his return from Charles VII 's court.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=691&p=18013&hilit=broi+rene#p18013
Huck had answered :
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=691&hilit=broi+ren ... 110#p18114
I'd explained the situation, and asked, when all three were together, possibly also Scipio.
Huck questionned the author and got this answer :
"I also mention the three men in the camp on p. 53, and discuss some other aspects of their relationship in that first chapter which might be of interest to you. But the other place you should look is Margaret King's book, The Death of the Child Valerio Marcello (1994), where she reconstructs many aspects of the chronology of Marcello's career and the careers of his friends."
Huck concluded :
I don't have page 53 and I don't have the introduction. And I doubt, that he knows the date, when Scipio Caraffa was in the camp.
Huck' closes the topic with the link to Margaret King's book :
https://books.google.de/books?id=RdWeII ... io&f=false
Nota : the thread then documents data about
1. the Crescent Order
2. the 1479 command of luxuous cards (hand painted?) decks for King René...