The suggestion of Il Delfino is a plausible one as representing the Crowned Delfin Dauphin card.

This possibility raises to 5 the number of candidates.

3 Delfin Dauphins of France

Futur Louis XI (my hypothesis)
Futur Charles VIII (Howard's preference)
Futur Louis XII

1 Delfin Dauphin of Auvergne

Il Delfino futur vice King of Naples (Hucks finding)

1 Crowned Delfin of the Count of Dasana (Huck)

From my point of view and regarding a datation mid XVth century , only 3 are plausible.

2 Delfin Dauphins of France

Futur Louis XI (my hypothesis)
Futur Charles VIII (Howard's preference)

1 Delfin Dauphin of Auvergne

Il Delfino futur vice King of Naples (Huck's finding )

Desana, not Dasara. Desana is just a location. Or Tizzone-family. And the Tizzone-family had also a Delfino Tizzone.

search.php?keywords=dasara&terms=all&au ... mit=Search

http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/tizzoni

Tizzóni ‹-zz-›. - Famiglia di Vercelli; nota dal 1142, nel sec. 13º era salita a tale grado di potenza e di ricchezza da dominare nel vasto comune vercellese. Di parte ghibellina, contrastò fieramente gli Avogadri guelfi; vano riuscì il tentativo di pacificazione svolto dall'imperatore Enrico VII. Si divise in tre rami che si intitolarono dai feudi Crescentino, di Rive e di Desana.

... .-) ... Actually the Goldschmidt dolphin question fits better to the thread "John Shephard, Goldschmidt Tarot", as this has already a good part of older material just to the Goldschmidt cards ...
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=691

Also there was a Delphino family in Venice.
https://books.google.de/books?id=efhfAA ... no&f=false

A cardinal of that family:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaccaria_Delfino

Huck wrote

(sorry the server for the pictures is momentary down)

The server is repaired, the pictures are back.

Ross sometime ago and on his site searched for heraldry that may relate to the Goldschmidt* sun, closest at that time was from the Venice/Padua family Bertoldi/Bertoldo:



There was a composer Bertoldi/Bertoldo di, 16th century, with some relation, or hoped for relation/patronage, with Laura d'Este (perhaps indicative of some earlier relation between the families?):

quote:
(b Castel Vetro, nr Modena; fl1544). Italian composer. He may have been a cleric. His known output consists of a single volume of four-voice madrigals (Venice, 1544). From the dedication, to Laura d'Este, it appears that he had, or wished to have, some connection with the Este family in Ferrara. His madrigals, which are settings of texts commonly used at the time, are competently written in a somewhat unadventurous style.

http://oxfordindex.oup.com/view/10.1093 ... icle.02923

SteveM

* edited to correct to Goldschmidt.

Likely you mean Goldschmidt sun, not Rosenthal (which has a castle with "Fortezza").

Something for the Goldschmidt thread.

btw
The page of Ross is here:
http://ludustriumphorum.blogspot.de/200 ... t-sun.html

Steve at another thread ...
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1102&p=17811&hilit=colleoni#p17811 (31st of October 2016)

SteveM wrote:

Huck wrote: Hm. If the "motto" was a commonplace as a motto, then show me the evidence.
I easily agree, that "nec spe, nec metu" might have been a commonplace in usual language "without special dominance (either motto, proverb or toast) .

It was commonplace as a piece of stoic philosophy. As a motto there is Charles de Bourbon; also Campbell's source for stating that it was a motto of Colleoni still needs to be clarified, and either shown to be correct or false.*

Opposite the Motto in Isabella's studiolo, and often being described as being paired with it, is another of her impressa, the number XXVIII, which is a pun for vinti i saeti, 'overcome the arrows' (the arrows of fortune, or as in Boaido's poem, the arrows of cupiditas/desire?), another piece of Stoic sentiment which is taken from Seneca.

SteveM
*The simplest way would be to just simply email him and ask him, I have his email (it is available on the net he is Professor at the John Hopkins - Krieger School of Arts and Sciences) but I don't have access to any of my own email accounts since my computer went dead, otherwise I would do so myself.

The question around around Charles de Bourbon, who used "N’espoir ny peur (French form of neither hope nor fear)", seems to be cleared, it was earlier than Isabella d'Este's use since 1504.
The question about an earlier use by Colleoni is still NOT solved.

The relevant passage seems to this:

https://books.google.de/books?id=z_GBq3 ... tu&f=false
from
The Cabinet of Eros: Renaissance Mythological Painting and the Studiolo of Isabella D'Este
Stephen John Campbell
Yale University Press, 2004 - 402 Seiten

The footnotes to this passage are ...



I find the first text (Luzio and Renier) ...
https://archive.org/stream/giornalestor ... 0/mode/2up








I searched for his email address, but didn't find it.

Huck wrote: I searched for his email address, but didn't find it.

http://krieger.jhu.edu/singleton/facult ... pbell.html

Thanks ... I wrote an email, but didn't get a reply till now.

Thierry Depaulis recently wrote something that puzzles me, in light of SteveM's and Huck's contributions in this thread. In the January-March 2023 issue of The Playing Card, he wrote a review of Tarocchi Spielerische Herrschaftsdemonstration der Herzöge von Mailand 1395-1500, by Sabine Abele-Hipp
(Darmstadt : WBG Academic, 2022). He notes that the author makes attributions of various cards to various rulers, many of which he justifiably takes issue with. But about one of these, Thierry writes (p. 95):

Other attributions are given to other rulers based on sometimes uncritical views. (Bartolomeo
Colleoni never used the motto ‘Nec spe nec metu’ – it was Isabella d’Este’s own motto; this
makes the V&A strange ace of cups very weird indeed, and it is perhaps... a modern forgery.)

Well, it may well be a "modern forgery" - or someone's copying of a card now lost - who knows? Is there a paint analysis? If so, that is of course relevant. But the presence of "Nec spe nec metu" on the V&A Ace of Cups does not put it out of the orbit of Bartolomeo Colleoni, nor in itself suggest that it is a modern forgery. This is not to say that the V&A card, or its original, was commissioned by Colleoni, as it could have been a gift to him from someone else. The court cards are consistent with the PMB, and Colleoni had a personal association with Francesco Sforza. The Star card's resemblance to its PMB counterpart puts it with either Milan or Venice, depending on who you think the PMB Temperance card was done for (for some of the period in question, the probable artist's whereabouts are unknown). The presence of the Colleoni coat of arms on the card seems to point to an association with him. I do not see how Isabella d'Este's use of the motto "Nec spe nec metu" says anything against such an association; it was in use by others in that period, for how long we don't know. It seems quite appropriate for a military leader. Is there some evidence that he would not have welcomed the motto on a card being given to him, or even that he never used it? Moreover, his home has several surviving 15th century frescoes both of players with big cards (i.e. tarocchi) and of tarocchi-like personages. (See Vitali on Malpaga.) Of course, I do not know what it was that Abele-Hipp said. But it does not seem to me that Thierry has set things right. Perhaps others can enlighten me.

I remember, that I had once formed the theory, that this deck type was produced by Isabella d'Este in the situation of 1512/13, when the French were driven out of Italy and Isabella d'Este was active in the manifestation of Massimiliano Sforza as the new duke of Milan.

:-) .... naturally one could call a deck type made in 1512/1513 "later" forgery, but it is not a forgery, when the deck type had new elements. My opinion in this point wasn't discussed much by other members .... I remember.
It was discussed, when Aeclectic still was used as a second forum.