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### Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - la séquence 1+4+7+10 = 22

Posted: 15 Sep 2016, 12:10
I have been trying to formulate what is and is not Pythagorean about Gosselin's analysis of the game of Trente et Un. Here is what I have come up with, a summary of his discussion of the game, with my parenthetical comments about what is Pythagorean or not about it.
Gosselin observes that no card, including the court cards, exceeds in points the number 10, which is 1+2+3+4, in other words, he says, made of four parts that do not exceed four. (This relationship between 4 and 10 is the Pythagorean Tetratkys.) Correspondingly, he goes on, there are four suits, which themselves correspond to the four elements. (That there are four elements is an assumption of Pythagoreanism and most other ancient philosophies; Gosselin's order of presentation, a somewhat unusual one, is that of Plato's Timaeus, 31b and 32b: fire, earth, water, air. In general, Pythagoreans look for commonalities between different natural groups of four. His argument for why each of the four suits should correspond to a particular one of the elements, however, has nothing Pythagorean about it that I can see.). Regarding the "most excellent harmony", Gosselin observes that in music the series of diapasons (which we would call octaves) are of notes in perfect consonance with one another. A diapason exists when two vibrating strings are in a ratio of 2:1. Thus a series of four diapasons, starting from unity, is 1+2+4+8+16. (This is an application of Pythagorean musical theory, which Gosselin expounded in his previous section, to the "4" of the suits.) The sum of these five numbers is 31, the highest number of points achievable in the game of Trente et Un, Thirty-One. (I cannot find where Pythagoreans attach any significance to the number 31 in virtue of being such a sum.) For these reasons, in his view, the game is designed to illustrate Pythagorean philosophy. (This has not been proved. However the number 31 can indeed be arrived at from an application of Pythagorean principles, and in that sense the game can be used to illustrate Pythagoreanism as he has done.)
Is this a fair assessment?

### Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - la séquence 1+4+7+10 = 22

Posted: 15 Sep 2016, 15:09
/Fair and quite clear.

Post scriptum

Integration of the necessary updating on :
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1102&p=17459#p17459

Paper version PDF dated September 15th

### Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - la séquence 1+4+7+10 = 22

Posted: 15 Sep 2016, 15:24
[quote="BOUGEAREL Alain"]Aparte

About Timoteo Viti as possibly identified to Protogene in Raphael's School of Athens
This still hypothetical identication needs to be confirmed :

Experts in Art consider 3 possible identifications.
1. Perugino master of Raphael.
Problem : the portrait made by Raphael of his master seems to deny this identification.
2. Sodom
Problem : being too old does not seem to be him
3. Timoteo Viti would then be the character depicted as Protogene with effigy of Raphael's contempories.
Result : probable identification but with no certainity.

Conclusion : So the character is Protogene depicted with effigy of Raphael's contemporaries.would be likely Timoteo Viti. Probablity without certainty.

### Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - From Mantua to Urbino

Posted: 15 Sep 2016, 16:12
Huck wrote :

It's not clear to me, how Emilia Pia was related to the Pio family. She is not mentioned as a daughter of Federico Montefeltro.

The relationship between Pio family and Boiardo wasn't a good one.
So likely the connected lady-team engaged in the production. The Viti brothers (likely) got a commission, likely not more.

Emilia Pia appeared in the story of the courtier Castiglione, who wrote a famous book.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldassare_Castiglione
Cards appear also in the book ...
http://trionfi.com/0/p/40/

... but that's later, I think, this plays around 1507 (if I remember correctly).

Hi Huck

Some data about Rimoreo Viti and Emilia Pia : both linked to the Urbino's Curt
Cour d' Urbain III
1482-1508

TIMOTEO VITI

Un lustre inégalé d'une école des arts et des lettres comme celle du Maître d'Urbain et qui succède comme peintre à la cour à Giovanni Santi. Il va devenir le formateur de son fils Raphael, le maitre incontesté de la peinture de la Renaissance.

See : Splendeurs de Cour d'Urbain paragrah 1
http://autourdelombreduconnetable.com/b ... ur-durbin/

EMILIA PIA

She is , :
La belle-soeur de la Duchesse d'Urbain and her confident
Les Jeux de Cour
http://autourdelombreduconnetable.com/b ... ur-durbin/

She is said to be "la grande organisatrice" des jeux d'esprit " de la cour : musique, poems etc
She is married to Antonio Guidobaldo, le demi-frère illégitime du Duc d'Urbain.
The wife of Antonio Guidobaldo is the sister of Giberto, the cousin of the Comte Alberto PIO de Carpi.
The eldest sister of Emila PIAn Alda is the wife of the Comte de Brescia with whom she'll have a daugter - the famous Comtesse de Corregion the poetesse

See : Splendeurs de la Cour d'Urbain paraphe 6 about the women of the court
http://autourdelombreduconnetable.com/b ... ur-durbin/

http://autourdelombreduconnetable.com/c ... e-leglise/

Reference : Baltassare Castiglione, closely linked with the Marquis of Mantoua ( at least five years of good relations) and with Isabelle d'Este (a solid relation friendly [and maybe more if affinities (?) until her death in 1539)

http://autourdelombreduconnetable.com/b ... ur-durbin/

### Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - la séquence 1+4+7+10 = 22

Posted: 16 Sep 2016, 10:13
Boiardo's conflicts

From.
Matteo Maria Boiardo (1441-1494)
Jo Ann Cavallo (Columbia University )

Boiardo around 1475
Boiardo’s tribulations during these years, however, were caused less by the fickleness of a young lady than by the treachery of his relatives. In 1474, after various vicissitudes, his uncle’s widow Taddea Cornelia, along with
her brother Count Marco Pio da Carpi and her son Giovanni’s chancellor, conspired to have him poisoned.
Alerted to the plot by a servant, Boiardo gathered the evidence of its proof, including the poison itself.
Although Marco Pio and the chancellor were apprehended and imprisoned, Ercole could not afford politically
to antagonize the count of Carpi. In the end, the only consequence of the attempted poisoning was simply the
division of the family properties that the two cousins had held in common: Matteo Maria retained Scandiano
and the surrounding land, while Giovanni took control of the other territories. This division was intended to
remove any cause for future dispute.
After the poisoning attempt Boiardo returned to reside in Ferrara where a court document from January 1476
lists him as the first of Ercole’s five companions, an indication of his prestigious standing. That same year
Ercole’s nephew Niccolò d’Este, son of the late humanist Duke Leonello, attempted to take over Ferrara, but
Ercole thwarted the coup and had those responsible brought to justice. Boiardo’s
Latin Epigrammata (Epigrams) laud Ercole’s actions.
After the death of Boiardo
The sequel to Boiardo’s real life, however, was a tragic one. When nineteen-year-old Camillo [the son of Matteo Maria Boiardo] died suddenly in 1499, the local doctor detected signs of poison. Nonetheless, Ercole d’Este did not investigate and allowed Matteo Maria’s cousin Giovanni to immediately expel his widow and daughters from the castle in Scandiano and occupy it himself. Giovanni then refused to relinquish the family’s personal possessions despite letters from King Louis XII of France and Isabella d’Este Gonzaga to Ercole d’Este on their behalf. A subsequent letter from Boiardo’s widow to Ercole’s heir, Duke Alfonso I d’Este, reveals that the matter was still unresolved in 1505 (Monducci and Badini). As often happened in the poem, the most insidious and lethal dangers did not originate in distant lands, but stemmed from within the poet’s own local environment.
The family conflict existed till in the 1530s and then with bloody murder.

The region ...

The families lived very close to each other in the region.

Reggio and Modena as capitals, Scandiano as the home of Boiardo, Carpi with the Pio family, Gonzaga as the original location of the Gonzaga family and Mantova as the current capital, Mirandola as city of the Pico. Boiardo's wife came from Novellara as part of the Gonzaga family (Taddea di Giorgio Gonzaga da Novellara).

It's strange to find with Emilia Pia a family member of the Pio in the possession of the Boiardo deck finally. From the reports it seems even possible, that Viti might have claimed to have written the poem.

### Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - la séquence 1+4+7+10 = 22

Posted: 16 Sep 2016, 23:29
Huck wrote
From the reports it seems even possible, that Viti might have claimed to have written the poem.

?

### Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - la séquence 1+4+7+10 = 22

Posted: 17 Sep 2016, 03:52
BOUGEAREL Alain wrote:Huck wrote
From the reports it seems even possible, that Viti might have claimed to have written the poem.

?
http://www.trionfi.com/0/h/03
... shows the Viti text. The name Boiardo appears only in the title.
Capitoli Del Giuoco Dei Tarocchi
Di Matteo Maria Boiardo
Con La Illustrazione
Di Pier Antonio Viti Da Urbino
Viti was dead in 1500. The first known publication is from 1523.
The text was then:
Cominciano cinque capituli bellissimi sopra il Timore, Gelosia, Speranza, Amore, del Co te Matheo Maria boiardo
[written in this manner]

Viti published cards and the cards had the texts of the poem and 2 sonnets (the name Boiardo isn't in the poem and also not in the 2 additional sonnets)

Raimondo Luberti, who analyzed the situation in 2003 for our Boiardo group ... see again http://www.trionfi.com/0/h/03
Father Vernaccia, whose biographical notes were at Renier times in ms. Oliveriano 1145, said that one of his descendants, Gio. Maria Antonio Viti had a manuscript of Pierantonio Viti’s “capitolo in quarta rima (sic), in cui colla figura del giuoco delle carte rappresenta quattro passioni dell' anima: cioè l' amore, la speranza, la gelosia, il timore" (a poem in rhymes in which four soul’s passions are represented through the playing card’s tarocchi figures: Love, Hope, Jealousy and Fear. So in Pungileoni, Op. cit., p. 3).
The information is wrong, for the author of the “codicetto antaldiano” [the old march. Antaldo degli Antaldi inheredited the goods, and also the manuscripts of Viti’s familiy, when it was extinguished) was Boiardo, not Viti.
Even if in the poem is not mentioned the name of the author, Viti never said he was the writer of the work, and in two places of it (pp. 315 and 333 of Le poesie volgari e latine di Matteo Maria Boiardo riscontrate sui codici e su le prime stampe da Angelo Solerti, Bologna, Romagnoli-Dall’Acqua, 1894) he spoke of the author of the Capitolo in third person.
Viti simply explained the Scandiano’s count poem in his Illustrazione dedicated to a lady of Urbino's’court, maybe Elisabetta d' Urbino, the Duchess, or Emilia Pia her intimate confident and friend or another anonimous Madonna.
Recently I researched the "Pater Vernaccia".
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1107&p=17192&hilit ... cia#p17192

Well, maybe the cards made by Viti had a package and at this package paper the name Boiardo had appeared. But we don't know this for sure.

### Le Tarot arithmologique - Remerciements

Posted: 17 Sep 2016, 15:32
Le Tarot Arithmologique : http://letarot.it/page.aspx?id=603&lng=ITA

Cet Essai à propos de la possible structure pythagoricienne du Tarot classique de 78 cartes est une recherche basée sur les plus pertinentes et récentes connaissances historiques. Elle s'adresse davantage à la communauté internationale des connaisseurs et/ou chercheurs en la matière. Rédigée sous la forme d'une Dissertation, elle a pour ambition de prendre en compte les arguments a contrario éventuels. La rédaction et le mode d'exposition de l'argumentaire le furent en ayant à l'esprit les exigences de rigueur de la recherche contemporaine notamment en histoire et iconographie des cartes et des tarots.
La thèse soutenue demeure néanmoins spéculative mais son degré d'incertitude, s'en trouve, à mon sens, désormais considérablement abaissé du fait d'une plausibilité accrue.

Remerciements au Professeur Andrea Vitali, Président de l ' association culturelle LE TAROT
http://letarot.it/page.aspx?id=1&lng=ENG
pour la publication en ligne de mon dernier Essai.
Remerciements au Dr Michael HOWARD
- pour sa Traduction en Anglais : http://letarot.it/page.aspx?id=603&lng=ENG
- et son Addition sous forme de commentaires : http://tarotarithmologique.blogspot.fr/
Une Traduction en Français par moi-même de l' Addition de Michael S HOWARD est prévue dans l'avenir.
Sont aussi en cours deux prochaines Traductions :
- l'une en Italien d' Andrea Vitali
- l'autre en Brézilien-Portugais par Cláudio César de Carvalho.

Nota bene :
Gratitude aussi à Andrea VITALI pour la rédaction d'une Biographie et d'une Bibliographie de mes principaux articles en la matière
http://letarot.it/page.aspx?id=23&lng=ENG

Gratitude enfin au groupe de travail de Tarot History Forum à savoir Mikeh |Michael HOWARD], Steve [Steve MANGAN] et Huck [Huck MEYER de Trionfi.com] dont les contributions critiques et constructives ont permis à cet Essai de parvenir à son état actuel.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1102
Les statistiques de consultations au moment où j'écris, donnent quelque 277 messages et 4120 vues en moins de trois mois - preuve d'un intérêt non négligeable pour un sujet pas évident de prime abord et, de surcroît, pas toujours écrit en Anglais.. .
Ce fut, en fin de compte et de conte (homonymie à escient car le Nombre et l'Image furent au centre de cette recherche), une occasion unique mais que je souhaite renouveler d' expérimenter en direct ma méthodologie d'un travail individuel soumis à une re-lecture collective. L enseignement majeur pour moi est qu'une telle procédure s'avère on ne peut plus enrichissante à condition d'être prêt à remettre son ouvrage cent fois sur le métier si nécessaire - tout en conservant sa propre identité.

Post-scriptum
La suite en cours de rédaction avec un premier article à propos du Jeu des 4 Couleurs et les 4 Tetractys :
GOSSELIN Jean Les chartes pythagoriques ...1585
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1102&p=17459#p17459

### Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - Remerciements

Posted: 17 Sep 2016, 21:10
"Fair enough?"

### Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - la séquence 1+4+7+10 = 22

Posted: 17 Sep 2016, 21:27
Huck wrote:
BOUGEAREL Alain wrote:Huck wrote
From the reports it seems even possible, that Viti might have claimed to have written the poem.

?
http://www.trionfi.com/0/h/03
... shows the Viti text. The name Boiardo appears only in the title.
Capitoli Del Giuoco Dei Tarocchi
Di Matteo Maria Boiardo
Con La Illustrazione
Di Pier Antonio Viti Da Urbino
Viti was dead in 1500. The first known publication is from 1523.
The text was then:
Cominciano cinque capituli bellissimi sopra il Timore, Gelosia, Speranza, Amore, del Co te Matheo Maria boiardo
[written in this manner]

Viti published cards and the cards had the texts of the poem and 2 sonnets (the name Boiardo isn't in the poem and also not in the 2 additional sonnets)

Raimondo Luberti, who analyzed the situation in 2003 for our Boiardo group ... see again http://www.trionfi.com/0/h/03
Father Vernaccia, whose biographical notes were at Renier times in ms. Oliveriano 1145, said that one of his descendants, Gio. Maria Antonio Viti had a manuscript of Pierantonio Viti’s “capitolo in quarta rima (sic), in cui colla figura del giuoco delle carte rappresenta quattro passioni dell' anima: cioè l' amore, la speranza, la gelosia, il timore" (a poem in rhymes in which four soul’s passions are represented through the playing card’s tarocchi figures: Love, Hope, Jealousy and Fear. So in Pungileoni, Op. cit., p. 3).
The information is wrong, for the author of the “codicetto antaldiano” [the old march. Antaldo degli Antaldi inheredited the goods, and also the manuscripts of Viti’s familiy, when it was extinguished) was Boiardo, not Viti.
Even if in the poem is not mentioned the name of the author, Viti never said he was the writer of the work, and in two places of it (pp. 315 and 333 of Le poesie volgari e latine di Matteo Maria Boiardo riscontrate sui codici e su le prime stampe da Angelo Solerti, Bologna, Romagnoli-Dall’Acqua, 1894) he spoke of the author of the Capitolo in third person.
Viti simply explained the Scandiano’s count poem in his Illustrazione dedicated to a lady of Urbino's’court, maybe Elisabetta d' Urbino, the Duchess, or Emilia Pia her intimate confident and friend or another anonimous Madonna.
Recently I researched the "Pater Vernaccia".
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1107&p=17192&hilit ... cia#p17192

Well, maybe the cards made by Viti had a package and at this package paper the name Boiardo had appeared. But we don't know this for sure.

Huck

Very interesting.
In French; I'd say : ça tient la route!
Thanks Huck