Reece wrote:

BOUGEAREL Alain wrote: “Still missing to remember the game of Tarot

which I think is a game for you, and that of Minchione

as sminchiata means a thing to be stupid” (a foolish thing; to be silly)

Merci, Alain.

Can you tell me if "missing" in this sentence means "to be in error;" "to miss-place" the game of Tarot; or "to long for" it? In English "missing" could mean any of these.

Chrome is better than nothing, as I have no idea what any of this means in Italian. I have heard the "penis" reference before; and the reference to "something silly;" but never the "bullshit" translation. I thought it was rather odd, as well.[/quote]


Minchia = penis

But, in Italian can be used as "stupid" or "bagatelle" (not importan). For example, I can said:

Non me ne frega na minchia se sono ingrasato.

I dont care nothing (na minchia) if I become fat.

Or in the sense stupid:

Berlusconi fa solo delle minchiate

Berlusconi only made actions stupid

--------------

I think its really a great discovery from Vitali. This article can be accompanied with another great article:

I Tarocchi in Letteratura III
Le Minchiate e i Germini
http://www.letarot.it/I-Tarocchi-in-Let ... 4_ita.aspx

This is the meaning of the speech:



We still remember the game of Tarot........
We have not still talked about the game of Tarot......
There is still the game of Tarot.....

BOUGEAREL Alain wrote:This is the meaning of the speech:



We still remember the game of Tarot........
We have not still talked about the game of Tarot......
There is still the game of Tarot.....

Merci

In this context, it means "longing for" tarot, clearly.

I think I have a new signature line.

About the date of the Farsa.

About 1521 and 1510 [?] :

The dating to 1521, which we find in other comments, is based on a hypothesis of Brunet which date it before 1521. So almost anywhere is “before 1521”.
Johanne de Castione began printing in 1505.
The Braidense of Milan, we know very serious with regard to dating, first wrote with a question mark then with “circa 1510”. Circa means or two years before or two years after, certainly not 10 years before or after. Experts of Braidense can date a book based on the type of writing, card verification and other things. If Braidense writes “circa”, means the maximum or 1508 or 1512. On this, we can be sure.
Then there is the important review of E. Sandal, a great expert (see below, in red). See also http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_ ... tID=239160.

Venturini, Venturino

Title: Farsa satyra morale ...

Publication: (In Milano : per Ioanne da Castione, [circa 1510]).

Physical description: [42] c. ; 4°

Notes: Per la data di stampa cfr.: E. Sandal, Editori e tipografi a Milano nel Cinquecento, .

Language:


Latino

Places:


1.Milano

Country:


Italia

Authors:


1.Venturini, Venturino <sec. 15.-16.>

Publishers:


1.Castiglione, Giovanni

Reference:


ELBNB

Check level:


Minimum

Record identifier:


CNCE 49487

Date of creation:


28.10.1999

Location:


MI0185 Biblioteca nazionale Braidense - Milano

The text was found online ...
in "La commedia popolare in Italia: saggi" by Lorenzo Stoppato (1887)

at
http://www.archive.org/stream/lacommedi ... 7/mode/2up

... the relevant passage is at page 207
http://www.archive.org/stream/lacommedi ... 1/mode/2up

... but it would be interesting to understand the whole text, not only this passage. Perhaps somebody with better Italian understanding could read it.

************************
I made a new thread to the Farsa Satyra Morale, as the title Minchiate might be misleading ... actually it's more interesting, that we have a rather early note of Tarocchi.
viewtopic.php?f=11&p=9990#p9990

Soon in English on Vitali's association web site...

In English the article Treatise on the Game of Minchiate



http://www.letarot.it/page.aspx?id=257&lng=ENG