Re: Le Tarot dit "de Charles VI"

#152
The BnF has scans of these cards in their ordinary digital library, called Gallica. As compared with the images that were available from the expositions, the ones in Gallica are 15 times the resolution, 2.5 Mb vs 217 Kb. Here is the link to Le Chariot
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10520234f/f1
From the search box on that page, enter "le tarot dit de Charles VI" to get to the others.

The best way I have found so far to get images from Gallica is to click the "print and download" link on the left (an arrow pointed down at a tray), and then download a .pdf of the whole page, from which the images can ve extracted by the adobe .pdf reader (I'm told) or by using one of the "get images from a .pdf" services. Make sure you download the page with the image rather than a thumbnail of it.

Here is one flag from the chariot as taken from the higher resolution image:
stemmas medicis blue.png
stemmas medicis blue.png (113.36 KiB) Viewed 846 times
While I don't know much about coats of arms, two pages of image results from a search for the Medici arms did not return any cases where seven dots were arranged in this pattern, with one in the middle. Here is the Medici coat of arms.
clip.png
clip.png (219.96 KiB) Viewed 846 times

Re: Le Tarot dit "de Charles VI"

#153
Here is a provisional translation of Alain's essay on LeTarot. The only awkwardness was in translating "plusieurs devices", which is ambiguous in the original between "several suits" and "many devices" i.e. heraldics, although, according to Caldwell, Depaulis prefers "suis", i.e,. French "couleurs", because the word "devices" meaning heraldics is not documented in France before the 16th century. I have used Caldwell's translation of the passage but with a long explanation of the ambiguity inserted in brackets.

I would welcome any suggestions for improvement.

Note added July 10 : I have made two additions since original posting. In line with Huck's suggestion in the post, I have added the point about Sheggia and the Castello Urbino cards to the translation, with Alain's assent. I assume that Alain will add it to the French. Also, I have added what the letters " SGDL" next to Alain's name stand for, as confirmed by him.

The Tarot called “of Charles VI”
Update on the historical research


by Alain Bougearel, member of the Scientific Committee of the Associazione LeTarot

Notice of the BNF [Bibliotheque Nationale de France, i.e., French National Library]
http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb403537867.public

Link to BnF: http://expositions.bnf.fr/renais/arret/3/

COMMENTS

The Tarot called "of Charles VI" [TdChVI] was kept by the collector Roger de Gaignières, (1642-1715): http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb12115323h

This deck, of which only 17 cards survive, 16 Triumphs or Trumps and a Page of Swords, was falsely attributed to Charles VI by a note of 1392 (?) by Charles Poupart, which mentioned a certain Jacquemin Gringonneur [comments in brackets by translator]: "To Jaquemin Gringonneur, painter, for three packs of cards in gold and in diverse colours, ornamented in many [or several] divisions [devices=suits, per Depaulis, for which see Caldwell below; another possibility is devices=heraldics] to be brought to the said lord King for his entertainment: 56 parisian sols).” («A Jaquemin Gringonneur, peintre, pour trois jeux de cartes à or et à diverses couleurs, ornés de plusieurs devises pour porter devers ledit seigneur roi pour son ebattement : LVI sols parisis».)

Charles Poupart, Registre de la Chambre des Comptes [Register of the Chamber of Accounts], 1392(?)

The note is authentic but would actually refer to a a completely different pack than the TdChVI, as pointed out by Ross Caldwell:

The Gringonneur case: http://trionfi.com/0/p/15/

The TdChVI would probably date from the second half of the 15th century (before 1465?); the images would be Florentine (see the Chariot with the presence of the 7 Palle [Balls] stemma, without the Fleur de Lys given by Louis XI to Piero de’ Medici in May 1465(?) with ordinal numbers added a posteriori and similar to the order of Bologna.

Nevertheless, one will remain cautious because the detailed analysis of the clothing present on each of the TdChVI cards, as studied by one of the highest authorities in the field, Dr. Elisabetta Gnignera, resulted in a mixed origin: Ferrara and Bologna. Nothing prevents us from assuming with some probability that the pack could have been executed by an anonymous painter whose origin would remain ipso facto unknown ...

In addition, the precise dating and exact origin of this beautiful pack are still subject to caution: see below, Remarks in I and Provisional Conclusions in II.

I. REMARKS: uncertainties as to when and where ...

1) The dating is from the results of the examination carried out by the Research Laboratory of the Louvre Museums (1). As Thierry Depaulis points out, they are formal: the pigments used do not allow us to go beyond a very general dating. The presence of flaps, which is emphasized in the analysis report, is evidence of late manufacture, even though, obviously, the drawing and the painting were done once each card was mounted, as is also the case for Rothschild Collection cards »(1)

2) The Order of Triumphs is comparable to the order in the Bolognese tradition. However the numbers on the cards are later than the pictures themselves. But is TdChVI [i.e. its set of numbers] at the origin of this tradition [of numbering], or is it inspired by that tradition?

"The figures shown are those readable, partially or not, at the top of the cards - except for the Hanged Man, where the figure is written at the bottom, 'upside down'. These Roman numerals are drawn in ink and appear slightly after the completion of the cards (first half of the 16th century at the latest)" (1)

"Michael Dummett looked at the Roman numerals written in ink on the top of the cards (except for the case of the Hanged Man) and partially trimmed: we can thus reconstitute an order of triumphs that seems close to the Bolognese tradition ..." [...] "Unless the tarot of Bologna was inspired by it" (1)

(1) Bibliography: Thierry Depaulis, Tarot, Jeu, Magie, [Tarot, Game, Magic], pp. 40 - 41 (Bibliothèque Nationale, 1984)


II. PROVISIONAL CONCLUSIONS

A)

The TdChVI is a Tarot because it includes a series of Triumphs, as Michael Howard has pointed out: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1154&start=120#p19498

The dating 1442 for Tarot = triomphorum ludus - offered by the editor of the article of the BnF, written c. 2006, was nonetheless offered in a hypothetical mode, "it seems...:".

"The tarot deck is mentioned for the first time, it seems, in Ferrara, in 1442, under the expression carte da trionfi or triumphorum ludus (triumphs). Around 1500, the term tarocchi appears in a book of accounts of the court of Ferrara. The French transcription "tarot" is met in a document dated 1505."

See http://expositions.bnf.fr/renais/arret/3/ (paragraph III).

Yet:

The oldest reference to the word "Trionfi" is dated September 16, 1440: http://trionfi.com/giusto-giusti

As for the first attested mention of the words "Tarochi" (Ferrara) and "Taraux" (Avignon) 1505: http://trionfi.com/0/p/23/

Ferrara 1505, 2 notes of Tarochi reported in: QUANDO SI INIZIA IN PARLARE DI "TAROCCO": FERRARA 1505 by Adriano Franceschini

Archivio di Stato di Modena, Camera ducale Estense, Guardaroba, 126, Conto de debiti e crediti, II semester 1505

c. 93r, 30 giugno:«Conto de merzaria de Guardaroba de' havere... E de' havere adì ultimo dito [giugno] per pare dexedoto de carte videlicet pare oto de tarochi e pare dexe fra schartini e carte de ronfa, quali fono portati a Viguenza, vene di Guradaroba al 3+, a c. 65 ... pare 18»

c. 96r, 26 dicembre: «E de' havere adì ditto per quindexe para de schartini e tarochi fo mandati a Viguenza per el Signore; vene di Guardaroba a 3+, a c. 68....[para] n. 15»


Avignon, Taraux, December 6, 1505: "The first known mentions of the word 'tarot' date from the beginning of the sixteenth century. Up to then called trionfi, it became tarocchi without anyone knowing why. We see it mentioned thus in an order of Duke Alfonso d'Este in Ferrara, and again in a notarized act of Avignon in which the Cardmaker Jean Fort undertakes to deliver "four dozen [packs of] cards commonly called taraux.” (See: https://www.tarot-paris.com/d-ou-vient-le-mot-tarot

Recommended articles on “taraux” (Avignon) and “tarochi” (Ferrara):

- Depaulis 2013 in Le Tarot Revéle [The Tarot Revealed], translated by M; Howard at: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=502&p=19407#p19407

Vitali at http://www.associazioneletarot.it/page. ... 20&lng=ENG

Nonetheless, the expression “tarocus” is found in use 1495, before 1499....
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1154&p=19374#p19373

As Andrea Vitali emphasizes, in literature one finds the word Taroch meanng Fool from 1494.
See: http://www.letarot.it/page.aspx?id=264&lng=ENG

We also know that in literature, Tarocco signified Fool: see “Theroco Wind”
at http://www.letarot.it/page.aspx?id=399&lng=ENG

See: “Tarocco sta per Matto”, http://www.letarot.it/page.aspx?id=689&lng=ITA

B)

Dummett, Depaulis and Vitali in the past noted a kind of similarity between the order of the TdChVI and that of Bologna.

Andrea VITALI: http://letarot.it/page.aspx?id=179
See: http://www.associazioneletarot.it/page. ... 21&lng=ENG

M. HOWARD has recently provided valuable insights regarding this thesis:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1154&start=10#p18659

Note: Depaulis remarks that the numbers on the cards were added after the pictures - so most probably unnumbered originally.

C)

The Medici Stemma (7 Palle) is present on the TdChVI Chariot.

For the 7 Palle Coat of Arms of the Medici:
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stemma_dei_Medici

Before 1465, under Piero de’ Medici, it is 7 Palle but without the Fleur de Lys, as on the TdChVI Chariot.

Huck Meyer:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1154&start=10#p18667

Steve Mangan:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1154&start=30#p18683

This is a rational deduction but it is not unanimous because after 1465 there are still some Stemmas of 7 Palle, no Fleur de Lys.

This would indicate a probable Florentine origin of the images of the initially unnumbered deck.

Summary of the question by Steve Mangan:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1154&start=10#p18670

D)

Who could be the painter of the images of the TdChVI?

Giovanni di ser Giovanni Guidi (called Scheggia), Italian painter and miniaturist, San Giovanni Valdarno 1406-1486, would be a very plausible candidate for the realization of the images of this deck - for two reasons.

(1) He is a painter documented as producing playing cards (see Franco Pratesi at http://trionfi.com/evx-lo-scheggia);

(2) He painted the birth plate illustrating the "triumph of fame" for the Medici family on the occasion of the birth of Lorenzo, who became "Il Magnifico" (ibid). Therefore, Scheggia would be a natural choice of the painter of triumph cards for the same family, perhaps for the same Lorenzo.

(3) One of the triumphs in the Castello Urbino group has special details similar to those of a young man on a wedding chest attributed to Scheggia. Other Urbino cards have much in common with those in the TdChVI. (See Huck at viewtopic.php?p=20308#p20308.)

(Thanks to M. Howard for his rephrasing of this hypothesis.)


Alain BOUGEAREL of the SGDL [Société des Gens de Lettres de France].


Published 20 04 2017 on Tradition des Tarots de Marseille: Le Tarot di “de Charles VI”
http://traditiontarot.com/viewtopic.php?id=932

Re: Le Tarot dit "de Charles VI"

#155

Who could be the painter of the images of the TdChVI?

Giovanni di ser Giovanni Guidi (called Scheggia), Italian painter and miniaturist, San Giovanni Valdarno 1406-1486, would be a very plausible candidate for the realization of the images of this deck - for two reasons.

(1) He is a painter documented as producing playing cards (see Franco Pratesi at http://trionfi.com/evx-lo-scheggia);

(2) He painted the birth plate illustrating the "triumph of fame" for the Medici family on the occasion of the birth of Lorenzo, who became "Il Magnifico" (ibid). Therefore, Scheggia would be a natural choice of the painter of triumph cards for the same family, perhaps for the same Lorenzo.


The Scheggia argument developed from the observation of 2 pictures.
Image
... composed of this 2 pictures ...
Image
... made by Scheggia ...
Image
Unusual Temperance card of the Castello Ursino deck, which has many similarities to the Charles VI cards (noted at Kaplan I, page 108/109)

***********

The breasts of the two nudes are painted in an unusual manner, possibly a personal style of Scheggia.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Le Tarot dit "de Charles VI"

#156
Yes, good addition, Huck. The thesis that Scheggia did the cards should probably read something like this.
(1) He is a painter documented as producing playing cards (see Franco Pratesi at http://trionfi.com/evx-lo-scheggia).

(2) One of the triumphs in the Castello Urbino group has special details similar to those of a young man on a wedding chest attributed to Scheggia. Other Urbino cards have much in common with those in the TdChVI. (See Huck at viewtopic.php?p=20308#p20308.)
Then the point about the birth tray would be point 3.

This point would be less persuasive if other painters of the time also painted heads and breasts similar to those on the Urbino card. Emilia Maggio sees a similarity to work of Apollonio di Giovanni, which is perhaps why I was hesitant to suggest your argument to Alain. But once I saw a larger image of the Apollonio, I was sufficiently unimpressed with her comparison to think yours is significantly better. I cannot at the moment find the image on the Web (it is of Cupid in an illuminated manuscript of the Aeneid). I will post it when I do.

Added a little later: Ah, yes, it was even from Huck:
Image

I compared the two back in 2014, along with the Cupid on Apollonio's Triumph of Chastity, at viewtopic.php?p=15290#p15290., as well as posting the relevant part of Maggio's article. I came to the same conclusion then as I do now.

On the other hand, the rocks in the Cupid and Venus look more like the rocks on the Hermit card of Urbino and the TdChVI (https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... Q6ORsZ_w-r) than Scheggia's rocks on the birth tray or his Triumphs (e.g. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... rte_01.JPG). But rocks are less interesting and distinctive than breasts, and perhaps there are some comparable rocks somewhere in Scheggia's works.

Re: Le Tarot dit "de Charles VI"

#157
Actually, in the way Apollonio paints rocks, I'm beginning to wonder if the ChVI perhaps is his creation rather than Scheggia's. This does not to cast doubt on Sheggia (and workshop) as the creator of the Catania. But the ChVI simply has more of Apollonio's style, compared to the Catania.
Here are the two Hermits:
Image
Notice the rocks in the one on the right compared to the one on the left. It may well be just that the one on the right has been taken better care of than the one on the left, but I'm not convinced that's the case. On the World card, there is some nice shading on the robe, absent from the ChVI. It may be that the ChVI was retouched in a later century by someone incompetent. The PMB Hermit, for example, looks to me clearly retouched, if only from the brightness of the colors, as opposed to .

The shading on the ChVI Hermit's rocks clearly resemble those of the rocks behind her in the Apollonio Venus and Cupid (see above) On the other hand, the Orsino Hermit's rocks resemble Scheggia's rocks. Here are some examples:
Triumph of Love (actually, pretty close to Apollonio's style):
Image
Triumph of Death:
Image
2nd Triumph of Death:
Image

Birth Tray, left and right:
Image
Image

Well, I'm no expert, and you never know what is the product of retouching in a later century and what is not, and what is by the master and what by an assistant. But I think there is enough difference between the two to wonder whether Apollonio (& workshop) - or even somebody else - might not have used Scheggia's design in his own particular but very similar style to create the ChVI. Apollonio was born 1414, died 1465, after which his partner's son apparently took over the shop. Scheggia was born 1406 and died 1486. Apollonio was born 1414 and died 1465. Apollonio learned his trade later than Scheggia, and similarly the style of the ChVI looks later than that of the Urbino. Yes, it's only 8 years, but it was at a critical time in the development of Florentine art. There is not enough reason to positively discount a connection to Scheggia, just reason to wonder, So the attribution of the ChVI to Scheggia remains speculative..

Re: Le Tarot dit "de Charles VI"

#158
With Alain's approval, I have added Huck's point about the connection of Scheggia to the Ursino/Catania cards to the reasons for thinking he might be the artist of the TdeChVI as well. I have also said what the initials after his name are for "Société des Gens de Lettres de France".

Re: Le Tarot dit "de Charles VI"

#159
mikeh wrote:
11 Jul 2018, 22:52
With Alain's approval, I have added Huck's point about the connection of Scheggia to the Ursino/Catania cards to the reasons for thinking he might be the artist of the TdeChVI as well. I have also said what the initials after his name are for "Société des Gens de Lettres de France".
HI
I m been away some time.
Thanks Huck and Mikeh for your contributions.
Yes, the TdChVI "painter" remains enigmatic.
Unknown artist ? Scheggia or Appolonio (workshops)?

The topic is wide open...

An interesting post of Mikeh : http://palermoempress.blogspot.com/
Web page : http://letarot.it/page.aspx?id=23&lng=eng

Re: Le Tarot dit "de Charles VI"

#160
Re formulating Point D about the artist of the TdChVI

My proposition in the actual state ...

D) Quel pourrait être le peintre des images du TdChVI ?
La question demeure ouverte.
L artiste est non identifié à ce jour - inconnu voire anonyme.
Deux noms de peintres retiennent néanmoins l’ attention des chercheurs :
Giovanni di ser Giovanni Guidi (nommé Lo Scheggia) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lo_Scheggia
Appolonio (Appolo) di Giovanni di Tomaso https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonio_di_Giovanni

Arguments Scheggia :
Huck Meyer : viewtopic.php?t=1154&p=20322#p20308
Arguments Appolinio :
Michael Howard : viewtopic.php?t=1154&p=20322#p20310
Web page : http://letarot.it/page.aspx?id=23&lng=eng

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