Re: Tarot de Marseille - Italian or French origin?

#91
Sorry Eugim... but perhaps I've done too much this week and am tired, but I fail to see how this supports either point that tarot (or the Tarot de Marseille in particular) has either a French or Italian origin.

They're wonderful images, but most are not even tarot related, and of those that have similarity, German texts can also be found... so to what merit?

If this thread is specifically about whether the first instance of the Tarot de Marseille pattern (whether in its type-I or type-II) variety first occurs in France, the existing remaining DECKS are French... but these are based on earlier patterns with close similarities that are Italianate (such as the Cary Sheet, the Sforza Castle Well, and of course the hand-painted Visctonti-Sforza decks).

And of course, those images do not arise in a cultural vacuum. Rather, it is within a context that straddles local geography and local time... so the influences from, for example, Ancient Greece (amongst other considerations) have their reflection in the then contemporary culture.

I realise you're aware of all this (and more) Eugim, and that you also have expertise in many areas that I do not have... but I fail to grasp the point you're specifically trying to bring us to. So either you're already saying what we generally agree upon, and we're all talking past each other, or you're making a stronger point that I, for one, am overlooking.
Image
&
Image
association.tarotstudies.org

Re: Tarot de Marseille - Italian or French origin?

#93
EUGIM wrote:My point is that Tarot de Marseille iconography has strong French Gothic heritage.
Ah! well, of that, I don't think that there is disagreement... as long as the 'heritage' is not presented as exclusively French and exclusively as Lumiere ('Gothic').

What I mean is that the Tarot de Marseille's heritage is, first and foremost, its deck antecedents, and those all appear to point to northern Italy. It's only after this that we can begin to talk of local imagery (such as petroglyphs) having their impact on local (French) card manufacturers (or woodcut-tradesfolk).
Image
&
Image
association.tarotstudies.org

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

cron