Re: Council of Constance

#41
In work

Angeln and Warnen

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-Jerstal-Kreis
Image
... c 100 AD

The picture (and its relation to Warnen and Angeln) is based on archeological researches.
Groups of Angeln and Warnen are said to have wandered to the region of Thüringen, which appeared c. 4th century as a kingdom of Thüringen (Thoringi).

List of ancient Germanic peoples (including a lot of people, who in their name start with Ang-).
Angarii, Angrivarii, Angeron, Angisciri, Anglevarii, Angleverii, Anglevaries, Angleveries, Anglies, Anglo-Saxons, Angrevarii, Angrivari, Angrevari, Angarii, Angerii, Angrii, Angari, Angeri, Angri, Aggeri, Angriouarroi, Aggerimenses, Angerienses (not all of them have something to a Angeln-context)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... ic_peoples

Plinius, Natural History (c 77 AD)
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... apter%3D28
... gives an orientation about Germanic tribes in his time:
There are five German races; the Vandili4, parts of whom are the Burgundiones5, the Varini6, the Carini7, and the Gutones8: the Ingævones, forming a second race, a portion of whom are the Cimbri9, the Teutoni10, and the tribes of the Chauci11. The Istævones12, who join up to the Rhine, and to whom the Cimbri13 belong, are the third race; while the Hermiones, forming a fourth, dwell in the interior, and include the Suevi14, the Hermunduri15, the Chatti16, and the Cherusci17: the fifth race is that of the Peucini18, who are also the Basternæ, adjoining the Daci previously mentioned. The more famous rivers that flow into the ocean are the Guttalus19, the Vistillus or Vistula, the Albis20, the Visurgis21, the Amisius22, the Rhine, and the Mosa23. I
Tacitus: Germanica (after 98 AD)
Alfred John Church and William Jackson Brodribb's translations (1868, 1868; revised 1876, reprinted 1899, 1942)
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... 99.02.0083
The theme of the Germanic tribes starts at chapter 27.

For a full text research of specific tribe names this translation of Germanica might be of more interest:
Thomas Gordon's 1737 translation
https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/basis/t ... nygord.asp

Other English translations at the English wiki article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_(book)



.......

*******************

Angrivarier

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angrivarii
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angrivarier


16 AD, last year of Germanicus in Germania
Frühjahr (Tac. Ann. II 5-7)
Einfall ins Chattenland: Silius fällt bei den Chatten ein und entführt Frau und Tochter des Fürsten Arpus.
Entsetzung Lippekastell: Marsch mit 6 Legionen zu einem belagerten Lippekastell und kampflose Entsetzung; Ausbau der Wege zwischen Rhein und Aliso.

Sommer (Tac. Ann. II 8-24)
Flottenoperation: Transport von 8 (evt. nur 2) Legionen auf 1.000 Schiffen zur Ems (Tacitus) oder – wahrscheinlicher – zur Weser. Erklärtes militärisches Ziel ist der Vorstoß des Heeres bis zu Elbe.
Strafexpedition gegen die Angrivarier: Stertinius bestraft einen Aufstand der Angrivarier „im Rücken“ des Heeres.
Bataver-Niederlage: Niederlage der batavischen Reiterei des Germanicus bei Minden im Vorfeld der Schlacht bei Idistaviso.
Schlacht von Idistaviso: Unklarer Schlachtausgang; die Römer behaupten jedoch das Feld gegen Arminius.
Laufende Angriffe: Germanische Truppen attackieren immer wieder die römische Marschkolonne.
Schlacht am Angrivarierwall: Unklarer Schlachtausgang; die Römer scheinen das Feld gegen Arminius behauptet zu haben, brechen jedoch den Feldzug ab.
Nordseestürme: der größere Teil des Heeres kehrt über See zurück; hohe Verluste durch Stürme.

Herbst (Tac. Ann. II 25)
Chatten-Feldzug: Silius zieht mit mindestens 3 Legionen ins Chattenland.
Marser-Feldzug: Mehr als 3 Legionen fallen bei den Marsern ein; möglicherweise Rückholung eines in der Varus-Schlacht verlorenen Legionsadlers.
Abberufung des Germanicus aus Germanien durch Tiberius.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Council of Constance

#42
... in work ....

13-9 BC .... hostile activities of Nero Claudius Drusus
[Drusus reached the river Elbe]
Drusus easily won election as consul for the year 9 BC. Once more he left the city before assuming office. His consulship conferred the chance for Drusus to attain Rome's highest and rarest military honor, the spolia opima, or spoils of an enemy chieftain slain personally by an opposing Roman general who was fighting (as consuls did) under his own auspices.[30] He quickly returned to the field, stopping to confer with his staff at Lugdunum and to dedicate a temple to Caesar Augustus at Andemantunnum, before rejoining his command at Mainz, from which the year's expedition departed in early spring. Drusus led the army via Rödgen through the territories of the Marsi and Cherusci until he even crossed the river Elbe. Here he is said to have seen an apparition of a Germanic woman who warned him against proceeding farther and that his death was near. Drusus turned back, erecting a trophy to commemorate his reaching the Elbe, perhaps on the site of Dresden or Magdeburg.
.....
[Drusus died in 9 BC]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nero_Claudius_Drusus
Image
... the map is slightly modified, for special reasons the tribe names Angrivari, Angili and Langobardi got a red frame.

Tiberius took the position of Drusus and had war till 8 BC. Then a sort of peace was arranged, which led to some dominion of the Romans.

Immensum bellum 1-5 AD

There was a rebellion and the installed Roman governors couldn't solve it. Tiberius arrived in 4-5 BC and again his action was successful.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immensum_bellum (German article)

The fights of Tiberius
Image


The strength of the Germanic armies in this time
Big scripture: more than 15000 warriors; middle scripture: 5000-15000; small scripture: less than 5000
Image


7-9 BC: The attempt of Varus to form a Germanic province. It didn't work.
Image
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Council of Constance

#44
About 1000 years later ...
Image
Westfalen and Ostfalen and Engern had become the duchy of Saxony and this belonged to the kings and emperors of the Liudolfinger, also called Ottonen.

Heinrich I ... 919 - 936
Otto I .......... (930) 936 - 973 .... married 929 an English princess (Editha +946), who was not the mother of Otto II
Otto II ......... (961) 973 - 983
Otto III ........ 983 - 1002
Heinrich II .. 1002 - 1024

This declares, that Sachsen already had the part "Engern", when the Franks conquered Saxony (804 AD, according https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sachsenkr ... des_Großen )
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titulatur ... von_Engern
Herzog von Engern
Nach Widukind von Corvey bestand das Stammesherzogtum Sachsen schon vor der fränkischen Eroberung aus den Teilen Westfalen, Engern und Ostfalen. Während des Reichstages von Gelnhausen nach der Achtserklärung Heinrichs des Löwen durch Kaiser Friedrich I. Barbarossa wegen Verweigerung der Heeresfolge wurde das Herzogtum Sachsen 1180 geteilt. Der Teil, der im Bereich des Erzbistums Köln lag, und das Bistum Paderborn wurden dabei zu einem neuen Herzogtum Westfalen und Engern zusammengefasst, das zunächst dem Erzbischof von Köln, Philipp von Heinsberg unterstand. Der östliche Teil ging als „jüngeres“ Herzogtum Sachsen an den Askanier Bernhard. Seit dem 12. Jahrhundert kam der Name Engern außer Gebrauch. Fortbestand hatte lediglich die Bezeichnung „Engern“ im Titel des Herrschers des jüngeren Herzogtums Sachsen („Herzog von Sachsen, Engern und Westfalen“). Mit der Übernahme Westfalens 1815 kam auch die Titulatur „Westfalen und Engern“ an den preußischen König Friedrich Wilhelm III.
The Latin name of Engern is "Angeria", very close to the name Angera which was used by the del Torre and the Visconti family.

The region "Engern" has a location called "Enger" ( https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enger ), nowadays with 20.000 inhabitants, 15 km North of Bielefeld. This shall have the bones of Widukind, who was the great Saxon hero in the wars against the troops of Charlemain.
Engerm 800 bis 1599
Um das Jahr 800 werden drei miteinander verwandte Männer beigesetzt. Die Gräber wurden im Chor der historischen Stiftskirche gefunden.[10] Im Jahr 948 wird Enger erstmals in einer Stiftungsurkunde Ottos des Großen erwähnt. 1305 wird im Zuge einer kriegerischen Auseinandersetzung[11] die Zerstörung der Burg Enger beschlossen. Im 13. Jahrhundert herrschen in Enger die Edelherren von Lippe, die ihre Macht von Heinrich dem Löwen verliehen bekamen und von diesem Zeitpunkt an als Vögte tätig sind.[12] 1408 fällt Enger an die Grafschaft Ravensberg. Das Kollegiatstift für weltliche Kanoniker zieht 1414 „aus Sicherheitsgründen“ in das befestigte Herford. Das Stift war vor 947 von der Widukind-Nachfahrin Mathilde I., der Frau Heinrich I., gegründet worden. Nach dem Tode Königin Mathildes übertrug Otto I. das Kanonikerstift 968 dem Erzbistum Magdeburg. Daher erklärt sich, dass der in Fulda entstandene und in Magdeburg gebundene Codex Wittekindeus in das Engeraner Stift gelangen konnte. Beim Umzug des Stiftes gelangte das Evangeliar nach Herford. Es wurde im 17. Jh. als Huldigungsgeschenk des 1647 brandenburgisch gewordenen Herfords dem Großen Kurfürsten übergeben und wird seitdem in der Berliner Staatsbibliothek (Theol. lat. fol. 1) aufbewahrt.[13]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widukind
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Widukind_(Sachsen)

1st wedding of the young Otto I
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_I._(HRR)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_I,_H ... an_Emperor
Um seiner Familie die durch ihn erlangte Herrschaft über das Ostfrankenreich und diesem zugleich die Einheit zu sichern, wurde zumindest 929/930 eine Vorentscheidung zugunsten der alleinigen Thronfolge Ottos getroffen.[5] In einer an seine Gemahlin gerichteten Urkunde vom 16. September 929,[6] der sogenannten „Hausordnung“[7], bestimmte Heinrich mit Quedlinburg, Pöhlde, Nordhausen, Grone und Duderstadt das Witwengut für Mathilde. Alle Großen des Reiches und sein Sohn Otto wurden zur Anerkennung und Unterstützung dieses „Testaments“ aufgerufen. Der jüngste Sohn Brun wurde Bischof Balderich von Utrecht zur Erziehung übergeben und damit auf eine geistliche Laufbahn vorbereitet. In einem Memorialbuch des Klosters Reichenau wird Otto bereits 929 als rex (König) bezeichnet, nicht aber seine Brüder Heinrich und Brun. Mit dem Titel rex war Otto allerdings noch nicht als Mitkönig installiert. Für eine herrscherliche Tätigkeit in der Zeit zwischen 929 und 936 fehlt jeder Beleg, vielmehr wird Otto in diesem Zeitraum in den Quellen gar nicht erwähnt.[8]

Heinrichs Nachfolgeregelung schloss nicht nur die nicht-sächsischen Anwärter, sondern auch die Brüder Ottos aus. Sie war bedeutsam, da Heinrich das Prinzip der karolingischen Herrschaftsteilung aufgab, die jedem Mitglied des Königshauses eine Anwartschaft zuerkannt hatte. Er begründete damit die Individualsukzession, die Unteilbarkeit des Königtums und damit des Reiches, die auch seine Nachfolger beibehalten sollten.

Gleichzeitig zu den Krönungsvorbereitungen warben die Ottonen beim englischen Königshaus um eine Braut für Otto. Heinrich bemühte sich auf diese Weise, Dynastien außerhalb seines Reiches an sein Haus zu binden, was bis dahin im ostfränkischen Reich unüblich gewesen war. Neben der zusätzlichen Legitimation durch die Verbindung mit einem anderen Herrscherhaus spiegelte sich darin eine Stärkung des „Sachsentums“, da die englischen Herrscher sich auf die im 5. Jahrhundert auf die Insel ausgewanderten Sachsen beriefen. Darüber hinaus brachte die Braut das Prestige mit, aus der Familie des als Märtyrerkönig gestorbenen Heiligen Oswald zu stammen. Nachdem die zwei Halbschwestern Edgith und Edgiva des englischen Königs Æthelstan an den Hof Heinrichs I. gereist waren, wurde Edgith als Braut für Otto ausgewählt. Ihre Schwester heiratete in das Königshaus von Hochburgund ein. Nach der Heirat Ottos erhielt seine angelsächsische Gemahlin Edgith 929 Magdeburg als Morgengabe. Zu Pfingsten 930 stellte Heinrich den designierten Thronfolger in Franken und in Aachen den Großen der jeweiligen Region vor, um deren Zustimmung für seine Thronfolgeregelung einzuholen. Nach einer Notiz aus den im 13. Jahrhundert kompilierten Lausanner Annalen, die nachweislich aus einer Quelle des 10. Jahrhunderts stammt, wurde Otto bereits 930 in Mainz zum König gesalbt.[9] Im Frühsommer 936 wurde in Erfurt über den Bestand des Reiches beraten (de statu regni). Heinrich empfahl den Großen nochmals eindringlich Otto als seinen Nachfolger.
According legend the Langobardes were Scandinavians. The original name was Winniler. In a war against the tribe of the Wandales the Langobardic women used their long hair to disguise themselves as men with long beards, this action shall have resulted in the name Longobardes. "Winniler" sounds a little bit like "Wikinger".
Others write, that the Langobarden were a subtribe of the Sueben.

The terminus Sachsen shall have delevoped late, c. 3rd century AD. They formed from peoples, which were already in the region earlier. Angrivarier, Angeln, Chauken. Some speculations assume, that the Chaucen might be Irish.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Council of Constance

#45
I estimate, that most Germans don't know the expression "Engern", but once it had some importance. Astonishingly I found the name "Engern" in a suggestion of a professor to improve the German Länder (= countries) partition. Before 1990 the BRD (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) had 11 Länder, it got 5 "neue Länder" in 1990 from the DDR, so totally 16. Werner Rutz made 3 suggestions, one of these new solutions had 17 Länder and it included Engern. The suggestion didn't find much attention.
Werner Rutz
Die Gliederung der Bundesrepublik Deutschland in Länder.
Ein neues Gesamtkonzept für den Gebietsstand nach 1990.
Nomos Verlagsgesellschaft. Baden-Baden 1995, 102 Seiten und 10 Karten im Anhang
http://www.buergerimstaat.de/1_97/bis971e.htm

Normal 16 German Länder
Image




17 German Länder in the Rutz suggestion (with Engern)
Image
"La distruzione di Scationa-Angera dall'Anonimo Ravennate a Galvano Fiamma
Ratti, E.. (1967 - 1968) - In: Atti del Centro Studi e Documentazione dell'Italia Romana Bd. 1 (1967/68) S. 253-272"




*************

https://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/an ... ievale%29/
Angera (lat. Vicus Sebuinus; Statio, Scationa, Angleria nei documenti medievali)

Località della Lombardia, in prov. di Varese, situata in un'insenatura naturale all'estremità meridionale della sponda lombarda del lago Maggiore.

Di origine romana - come testimoniano diversi reperti lapidei, un sepolcreto e resti di un santuario mitraico - A. fu saccheggiata e distrutta agli inizi del sec. 5° dai Visigoti di Ataulfo (m. 415), poi conquistata e ricostruita dai Longobardi sul finire del 6° secolo. Nel sec. 9°, in età carolingia, l'antica Scationa assieme a tutto il territorio del Verbano iniziò a gravitare politicamente su Milano, rafforzando tale legame quando il possesso della rocca e del contado fu confermato da Alessandro II, nel 1162, alla Chiesa milanese.

Il piccolo abitato di A. è dominato a N da un promontorio su cui si erge la rocca - baluardo difensivo appartenuto dapprima agli arcivescovi di Milano e ai Torriani (sec. 13°), passata poi in mano ai Visconti nel Tardo Medioevo (1314) e divenuta in seguito feudo dei Borromeo (1449) -, nota artisticamente non solo come pregevole esempio di architettura militare gotica, ma soprattutto per il ciclo di affreschi del primo Trecento ivi conservati.
The location Angera seems to have had various names in the past, for 1162 (?) it might be, that still the name was "Scationa".

http://opac.regesta-imperii.de/lang_de/ ... pk=1714418
"La distruzione di Scationa-Angera dall'Anonimo Ravennate a Galvano Fiamma
Ratti, E.. (1967 - 1968) - In: Atti del Centro Studi e Documentazione dell'Italia Romana Bd. 1 (1967/68) S. 253-272"

The Anonimo Ravennate stands for an author of a work with maps in 6th/7th century. Probably somewhere in this text the location "Scationa" is mentiioned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravenna_Cosmography .... wiki uses c 700 AD
Galvano Fiamma (13th-14th century) we had already in this context ....

https://books.google.de/books?id=EjYVAA ... na&f=false
.... has a lot about Scationa, but is too complicated for my poor Italian.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Council of Constance

#46
Huck wrote:
05 Oct 2020, 10:52
https://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/an ... ievale%29/
Angera (lat. Vicus Sebuinus; Statio, Scationa, Angleria nei documenti medievali)

Località della Lombardia, in prov. di Varese, situata in un'insenatura naturale all'estremità meridionale della sponda lombarda del lago Maggiore.

Di origine romana - come testimoniano diversi reperti lapidei, un sepolcreto e resti di un santuario mitraico - A. fu saccheggiata e distrutta agli inizi del sec. 5° dai Visigoti di Ataulfo (m. 415), poi conquistata e ricostruita dai Longobardi sul finire del 6° secolo. Nel sec. 9°, in età carolingia, l'antica Scationa assieme a tutto il territorio del Verbano iniziò a gravitare politicamente su Milano, rafforzando tale legame quando il possesso della rocca e del contado fu confermato da Alessandro II, nel 1162, alla Chiesa milanese.

Il piccolo abitato di A. è dominato a N da un promontorio su cui si erge la rocca - baluardo difensivo appartenuto dapprima agli arcivescovi di Milano e ai Torriani (sec. 13°), passata poi in mano ai Visconti nel Tardo Medioevo (1314) e divenuta in seguito feudo dei Borromeo (1449) -, nota artisticamente non solo come pregevole esempio di architettura militare gotica, ma soprattutto per il ciclo di affreschi del primo Trecento ivi conservati.
The location Angera seems to have had various names in the past, for 1162 (?) it might be, that still the name was "Scationa".

http://opac.regesta-imperii.de/lang_de/ ... pk=1714418
"La distruzione di Scationa-Angera dall'Anonimo Ravennate a Galvano Fiamma
Ratti, E.. (1967 - 1968) - In: Atti del Centro Studi e Documentazione dell'Italia Romana Bd. 1 (1967/68) S. 253-272"

The Anonimo Ravennate stands for an author of a work with maps in 6th/7th century. Probably somewhere in this text the location "Scationa" is mentiioned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravenna_Cosmography .... wiki uses c 700 AD
Galvano Fiamma (13th-14th century) we had already in this context ....

https://books.google.de/books?id=EjYVAA ... na&f=false
.... has a lot about Scationa, but is too complicated for my poor Italian.
That's very good, thanks. The author Durandi of 1804 you link is more difficult Italian, and badly set with some mistakes. Durandi was quoted and paraphrased in 1850 by Goffredo Casalis in 1850, with more modern Italian, page 442 here - https://books.google.fr/books?id=K28pqU ... 22&f=false
Nè il nome della nostra Stationa venne in disuso, o si perdette se non verso la metà del secolo XIII. In una carta del 1211, presso il p. Zaccaria de martyr. Aronens, si nonima tuttavia un abitante de Staciona, come pure in altre carte posteriori, quantunque verso il fine del secolo XII v'incominci a comparire Angleria, intorno alla cui etimologia, ed origine, e intorno agli antichi suoi conti si immaginarono molte fole ed assurdità da parecchi scrittori. Quest'altro nome sebben apparisca sì tardi, è certamente assai più antico del secolo XII, giacchè pure in altre provincie eranvi luoghetti da gran pezza così appellati, come Anglaria in Pago Arlatino, ossia di Arles, di cui è fatta menzione nel testamento del patrizio Abbone. Sembrò al nostro dotto Durandi che Anghiera fosse già il luogo, in cui si teneva il mercato di Staziona, e diffatto tale ci si presenta nella prima sicura memoria che insino ad ora se ne trovò in una documento del 1196, cioè actum Foro Angleriae. Eravi ancora in piè castrum Stacionae ricordato in altro documento del 1192, appresso il sopracitato Zaccaria; sulle cui rovine, e del principal luogo essendo di poi cresiciuto di fabbriche e di popolazione il particolar sito del mercato, prevalse finalmente il nome di Anghiera.
It is mostly clear in the DeepL machine translation -

Either the name of our Stationa came into disuse, or was lost by in the middle of the 13th century. In a map (page?) of 1211, at the p. Zaccaria de martyr. Aronens, there is nonetheless a habitation de Staciona, as well as in other later papers, although towards the end of the 12th century Angleria began to appear there, around whose etymology, and origin, and around its ancient accounts, many follies and absurdities were imagined by many writers. This other name, if it appears so late, is certainly much more ancient than the XII century, since also in other provinces there were small places of great importance so called, like Anglaria in Pago Arlatino, that is of Arles, which is mentioned in the will of the patrician Abbone. It seemed to our learned Durandi that Anghiera was already the place, where the market of Staziona was held, and in fact such is presented in the first sure memory that at least to now was found in a document of 1196, that is actum Foro Angleriae. Remained still in the castrum Stacionae mentioned in another document of 1192, in the above mentioned Zaccariae, on whose ruins, and the main place being then the particular site of the market, finally prevailed the name of Anghiera.

So Durandi basically says that Angleria means a marketplace, which, becoming the more populated part of the location, finally gave its name to the older castle, Staziona.
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Re: Council of Constance

#47
In work

Thanks ....

************************

We had earlier the expression Inglexio or Inglexium and, as we see below, also Anglexium.

Memorie spettanti alla storia, al governo ed alla descrizione della città, e della campagna di Milano, ne' secoli bassi, Band 4
by conte Giorgio Giulini, Stamperia di G. Bianchi, 1760
https://books.google.de/books?id=wYhYAA ... um&f=false
Image

The text speaks of the crowning of the German king as the king of Lombardy before he could be crowned as emperor in Rome. The Conti di Angera (which are the reigning Visconti in Milan) have some function in this process.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingaevones

My private Latin dictionary: "Lexovii, lexoviorum" was a folk of coast inhabitants in Normandy
Lexo'vii in ...
A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Geography by Various Writers: Iabadius-Zymethus
John Murray, 1873 - 1383 Seiten
https://books.google.de/books?id=JBzfJc ... ii&f=false
Image


The Norman conquest of England (1066) repeated the Caesar attack from Normandy. The Normans had come to Normandy 155 years before in 911.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_co ... of_England
Image
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Council of Constance

#48
For the variation "Inglexium" "Inglexio" etc., consider that this is a Latinization of the form heard in the local dialect, which wikipedia says is "Ingera" -
Angera (Ingera in dialetto varesotto)
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angera

I can't explain how /lex/ becomes /ler/, or how the /l/ sound is lost, i.e. Inglexia >Ingexia >Ingera.

Strangely, Marziano's Sant'Alosio has a similar "x" problem. Many of the 14th and early 15th century references to the town spell it "Aloxio."

But a list of towns from the 9th century mentions "Elexi," which from the context clearly means what is now Sant'Alosio. So it seems that the name "Alosio" is an assimilation of the older name to a more familiar form, since Alosio is a form of Lodovico. But the form "Aloxio" might be a half-way version of how the locals pronounced it, showing the name in mid-evolution from Elexi to Alexi to Aloxi to Alosi.

In the source the name Elexi doesn't have a "Sancto," it is just the name of the place. So maybe the change happened when the owners of the place, probably the Rampini, wanted to associate themselves with the name of Saint Louis, canonized in 1297.
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Re: Council of Constance

#49
Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:
07 Oct 2020, 18:11
For the variation "Inglexium" "Inglexio" etc., consider that this is a Latinization of the form heard in the local dialect, which wikipedia says is "Ingera" -
Possibly neither Angera nor Ingera as local dialect did exist for the location, when the name Scazione was preferred for this old place at the Como lake. Then somebody must have invented the use of Angera, Ingera or similar.
Otto I, married, after his English wife Editha had died, in Italy Adelheid of Burgundy in 951, earlier the wife of the young King Lothar of Italy. Lothar died young, possibly as a victim of Berengar and Berengar had the wish, that Adelheid should marry now his own son. Adelheid didn't like that, and Berengar prisoned her somewhere at the Garda lake.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelaide_of_Italy
The English wiki doesn't tell the complex story how Adelheid escaped and how she arrived in the castle Canossa and that Berengar couldn't catch her and Otto I arrived and took her as wife and also Pavia and they went to bed and had some children and Otto II was produced and born in 955. And Otto I was the king of Italy. Or Lombardy. But he delegated that to Berengar and his son Adelbert for some time. Otto I got the crown for himself and his descendents in 961 and the Conti of Angera had something to do with it. If not immediately, then later, when the Visconti had Angera and called it Angera (or similar).
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And before Otto I got Adelheid, Roman king Otto I had already the duchy of Saxony and this duchy had 3 parts Westfalen, ENGERN and Ostfalen and "Engern" is very similar to "Angera" as "New Amsterdam" is similar to "Amsterdam" (cause New Amsterdam was founded by Dutch persons) and "New York" is similar to "York" (cause a duke of York conquered New Amsterdam). So Engern is rather far from Angera, but Otto I, who knew Engern since his childhood was also very far from Engern, when he freed Adelheid in Canossa, and when he married her and when he did become King of Italy (961) and Emperor of the Empire in Rome (962).
The point is, if Otto I and the educated Saxons of his time knew about Longobards in their own region (Engern) in very old time (time of the Cherusker) and that these Longobards took a long way to become rulers in Italy since a few hundred years (since end of 6th.century). I guess, they knew something, at least by oral tradition.

We - perhaps - assume, that Guelphs and Ghibelline were an Italian problem .... but it had a Germanic start.


English wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Della_Torre
The Della Torre (Torriani or Thurn) were an Italian noble family who rose to prominence in Lombardy during the 12th–14th centuries, until they held the lordship of Milan before being ousted by the Visconti.
The family originally sprang from the small fortified burgh of Primaluna, in the Valsassina. ....
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The first notable member was one Martino, nicknamed Il Gigante ("The Giant"), who fought in the Holy Land during the Crusades. His son Jacopo married a Visconti, Berta, and was captain of Milan. His nephew Raimondo was bishop of Como in 1262–1273 and Patriarch of Aquileia (1273–1299), while another nephew, Salvino, was podestà of Vercelli.
Jacopo's son, Pagano, became capitano del popolo of Milan in 1240, holding the position until his death in 1247. His brother Martino (III) imposed his personal power over the city, beginning the Torriani lordship, which lasted some 50 years. He died in 1259 and was succeeded by another brother, Filippo. Torriani possessions included Bergamo, Lodi, Novara and Vercelli. The Torriani were staunch members of the Guelph faction in Italy.
Napoleone, son of Pagano, gained power in Milan in 1265, but was defeated by the Visconti in 1277: he died the following year, imprisoned. His brother Francesco was podestà of Brescia, Alessandria, Bergamo, Lodi and Novara, and was killed in the Battle of Desio (1277), against the Visconti. With that victory the Visconti acquired power in Milan. In 1302 they were in turn ousted. Corrado Mosca, who had already been signore between 1277 and 1281, was returned to power, which he held until 1307, when he was succeeded by his son Guido. Having tried to incite the people against the Emperor Henry VII, Guido was forced to flee, and died in 1312.
Florimondo della Torre, son of Corrado Mosca, attempted in vain to regain power in Milan.
So the della Torre family belonged to the Guelph party

German wiki: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torriani_ ... eschlecht)
Napoleone della Torre, einer der zehn Söhne Paganos des Jüngeren, war von 1265 bis 1277 Reichsvikar der Lombardei unter König Rudolf von Habsburg, wurde aber 1277 von Erzbischof Ottone Visconti bei Desio besiegt und starb als Gefangener im Castello Baradello zu Como.
(Napoleono della Torre was in 1277 opponent of the Visconti and had worked some years for the Roman king Rudolf of Habsburg (who possibly belonged also to the Guelph party ?) .
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visconti
"Im 11. Jahrhundert besaßen die Visconti Ländereien am Comer See und am Lago Maggiore."
The Visconti had territory at the Lago Maggiore and at the lake of Como. This were probably Visconti Massino at the Lago Maggiore and Mariano Comense in the South of the city Como (actually not at the lake of Como, but this two locations are given by the Italian wiki article). Visconti Massino has 6 km distance to Angera, which are both at the Lago Maggiore, but at opposite sides of the lake.
The Lago Maggiore was a major trading route to the countries North of the Alps, so the control of the lake could lead to a lot of income.
Gian Galeazzo Visconti, Herzog von Mailand, gab Ende des 14. Jahrhunderts eine Genealogie in Auftrag, mit der die Visconti auf die Grafen von Angera zurückgeführt wurden, denen Papst Gregor der Große im Jahr 606 einige Königshöfe, darunter den in Mailand und Monza, verliehen haben soll.[1] Im Jahr 1397 gelang es Gian Galeazzo mit Hilfe dieses Konstrukts, dass der deutsche König Wenzel ihm den Adelsstand und den Titel eines Grafen von Angera zuerkannte. In dieser Genealogie treten auf:
Ottone, der im Ersten Kreuzzug, also im Jahr 1099 beim Kampf um Jerusalem einen arabischen Herrscher getötet haben soll; Hintergrund dieses Details ist eine gewünschte Erklärung für das Familienwappen, dessen Schlangenemblem von diesem Gegner übernommen worden sein soll.
Galvano Visconti, der Mailand gegen Kaiser Friedrich Barbarossa verteidigte, woraufhin ihm dieser den Titel eines Grafen von Angera entzog und ihn zum Vizegrafen herabstufte, was als Erklärung für den Familiennamen herhalten soll.
Gian Galeazzo Visconti gave the commission for the Visconti genealogy (end of 14th century), in which the Visconti are led back to the counts of Angera, who shall have gotten in the year 606 some king courts by Pope Gregor the Great (who - according wiki - had died in 604). Between these king courts were also the courts of Milan and Monza. In the year 1397 Gian Galeazzo reached with this construction, that King Wenzel gave him "Adelsstand" and the title of a count of Angera. In this genealogy appear:
a. Ottone (Visconti), who in the first crusade in the year 1099 in Jerusalem shall have killed an Arabian ruler; background of this detail is a desired explanation for the heraldic device of the Visconti-viper.
b. Galvano Visconti, who defended Milan in the war against Frederick Barbarossa, and who lost the title "count of Angera" for this and was degraded to the lower title "Vice count". This action should explain the name "Visconti".

The latter info is much better presented in Busch, p. 148 ff.
https://digi20.digitale-sammlungen.de/d ... ontext=606

Busch gives info, that the story of "606" has as an oldest known date in documents the year 1146 "after Milan was conquered by Friedrich Barbarossa" (which actually took place 1166). Also he insists, that the older reporting texts of the story used the name Inglexico (not Angera).

Ross, you wrote recently ...
For the variation "Inglexium" "Inglexio" etc., consider that this is a Latinization of the form heard in the local dialect, which wikipedia says is "Ingera" -
Angera (Ingera in dialetto varesotto)
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angera
Well, I think, that there was more a Langobardisierung of Latin than a Latinization of the Lombards.

Male Italian names 1427 (from c. 200 on the list)
https://www.behindthename.com/top/lists ... enaissance .... no Ing-, for I- Iacopo is the only one
Female Italian names (modern, from c. 200 on the list)
Ida (given name) - Ilaria (given name) - Imelda - Iolanda - Irene (given name) - Irma (name) - Isa (name) - Isabella (given name) ... no Ing-

German Ing-names of some distribution, as I know them just from friends
Ingo, Ingmar, (male) + Inge, Ingeborg, Ingrid (female)
1. Ingo: "Ingo is a masculine given name in contemporary Scandinavia and Germany, and a historical name in France. It is the male version of the name Inga, used in the same region. It means "protected by Yngvi", who is the main god for the Ingvaeones, and is probably a different name for the Germanic god Freyr."
2. Ingmar: "Ingmar is a Scandinavian given name and is a composite of Ing, possibly a Norse god, and Mar, meaning "famous". The name element Ing is also found in Ingvar, Ingolf, Ingeborg, and other names. Its name day is June 3. See also Ingemar."
3. Inge: "Inge is a given name in various Germanic language-speaking cultures. In Swedish and Norwegian, it is mostly used as a masculine, but less often also as a feminine name, sometimes as a short form of Ingeborg, while in Danish, Estonian, Frisian, German and Dutch it is exclusively feminine. The feminine name has the variant Inga. The name is in origin a hypocorism of names beginning in the element Ing- (such as Ingar, Inger, Ingrid, Ingeborg, Ingram, Ingvild, Ingunn etc.). These Germanic names made reference to either the god Ing or to the tribe of the Ingvaeones (who were presumably in turn named for the god)."
4. Ingeborg: "Ingeborg is a Germanic feminine given name, mostly used in Germany, Sweden, Norway and Denmark, derived from Old Norse Ingiborg, Ingibjǫrg, combining the theonym Ing with the element borg "stronghold, protection". Ingebjørg is the Norwegian most used variant of the name, and Ingibjörg is the Icelandic variant."
(all from English wiki)
5a. Ingrid, I prefer a part of the German wiki: "Zu Beginn des 20. Jahrhunderts war der Name Ingrid in Deutschland eher ungebräuchlich. Ab etwa 1910 kam er jedoch immer mehr in Mode. Vom Ende der zwanziger bis zum Anfang der fünfziger Jahre war er unter den zehn am häufigsten vergebenen weiblichen Vornamen, im Jahr 1934 sogar der häufigste überhaupt. Seine Popularität schwand jedoch während der fünfziger und sechziger Jahre, so dass heute kaum noch Kinder Ingrid genannt werden." (In short, the name was invented to Germany in 20th century, with an absolute height in 1934 (1st place). It lost its popularity nowadays. Then a list of name variants is given, connected to Northern countries.)
5b.:
dänisch: Inger, Ingerid, Ingfred, Ingred
färöisch: Ingirið, Ingrið
finnisch: Inker, Inkeri, Inkri
isländisch: Ingifríður, Ingiríður
litauisch: Ingrida
norwegisch: Ingefrid, Inger, Ingerid, Ingfrid, Ingfrida, Ingfryd, Ninni
polnisch: Ingryda
samisch: Iŋgir
schwedisch: Ingefrid, Inger, Ingifridh, Ingra, Ingri
slowakisch: Ingrida

Swedish Female Ing-names
https://www.nordicnames.de/w/index.php? ... agefrom=Ii
Inga - Ingabrit - Ingabrita - Ingabritt - Ingabritta - Ingalena - Ingali - Ingalice - Ingalie - Ingalil - Ingalill - Ingalina - Ingalis - Ingalisa - Ingalise - Ingaliss - Ingamaj . Ingamaja - Ingamari - Ingamaria - Ingamay - Ingar - Ingard - Ingbor - Ingborg - Ingbrit - Ingbrith + c. 100 other female Ing-names
Swedish Male Ing-names
https://www.nordicnames.de/w/index.php? ... agefrom=Ii
c. 50 names
All Swedish ing-names https://www.nordicnames.de/namefinder/?region=sv
c. 180 Ing-names of c. 16.000 listed Swedish names

*************

India ... name of the land at the other end of the world (from European perspective)
Already Herodot (500 BC) knew the word Indika for India.


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Strabon-map
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Ing-etc. ... names for lands at this (European) end of the world (? I've to claim the copyright on this idea, I didn't get this from somebody else ... :-)?)
Ingaevones - Germanen (an expression, which included Scandinavians and other Northern people and was not limited to modern "Germans"), which lived at the sea, the expression was used by Plinius and Tacitus in a different manner with contradictions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingaevones
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingwäonen
Gods Yngvi-Freyr, also Inguin, Old English Ingƿine and Proto-Germanic Ingwaz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yngvi
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yngvi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freyr
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freyr

Hypothetical attempt to locate the Ingaevones:
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(?) At this point I got the idea, that there was an old Indian god with the name "INDRA" ... German wiki says about him: "Indra (Sanskrit, m., इन्द्र „mächtig, stark“)ist eine vedische Gottheit, der jedoch im heutigen Glaubensleben des Hinduismus kaum noch Bedeutung zukommt." ... which means, that the god lost its importance in the modern world of Hinduism. Well, the Ing- gods also lost their importance. (?)

Indra should be older than Herodot's time ("Indra as a deity had a presence in northeastern Asia minor, as evidenced by the inscriptions on the Boghaz-köi clay tablets dated to about 1400 BCE." and "Indra is praised as the highest god in 250 hymns of the Rigveda – a Hindu scripture dated to have been composed sometime between 1700 and 1100 BCE.")
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra
Huck
http://trionfi.com

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