Collection ... Karnöffel

#1
Maybe the theme Karnöffel needs a collection.

As there were older contributions, as for instance "Meissner's Karnöffel", I'll try to integrate them in this first post. At trionfi.com we made once an older collection at ...
http://trionfi.com/0/c/03/index.php
... , though years ago.
I take it as a base:

*********************

1423 Florence/Ferrara, Italy, Imperatori deck
(8 Imperatori cards bought in Florence for Parisina)
http://trionfi.com/0/c/02/

1426 Nördlingen, Bavaria
In the earliest known reference to Karnöffel, it was "listed in a municipal ordinance of Nördlingen in 1426 as among the games that could lawfully be played at the annual city fête."

1432 Alsace, France
Meister Ingold wrote Das Guldin Spiel, including a possible reference to Karnöffel.
http://trionfi.com/0/mi/00/

1443 Würzburg, Germany
"... a chronicle from Würzburg, Germany for 1443-1455 mentions 'a certain individual... playing at cards a game called the Emperor's Game (ludus Imperatoris)', a literal Latin rendering of Kaiserspiel." The same or a similar name is used around that time in Zürich (unspecified information).

1443 Ferrara, Italy, Imperatori deck production
http://trionfi.com/0/c/02/

1446
Karnöffel forbidden in Augsburg (according Schreiber 1937 p. 141)

1448 Baldau
The game Karnöffel is allowed (according Schreiber 1937 p. 141)

1450 Ferrara, Italy, Imperatori deck

c. 1450 Germany
A poem by Meissner provides the earliest information about the ranking of cards in Karnöffel.
(discussion to Meissner's Karnöffel poem)
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=416&p=5180&hilit=k ... ffel#p5180

1452 Ferrara, Italy, Imperatori deck

1454 Ferrara, Italy (?)
"... records state that Borso d'Este played at cards: 'of the Emperor' (dell'imperatore) in Ferrara around 1454."

1455
Molitors Würfellosbuch mentions, dass mit "lützel Augen", small cards, im "wildem Carnöffelspyle" a win could be made

1460, 1486
Noted in Fastnachtsspielen (unspecified);Women also play Karnöffel

1475
Noted in the Theutonista (lower Rhine language)(source: Grimm's Wörterbuch)

1496, 1498, 1508
Sermons of Geiler von Kaisersberg, Germany
Bishop Johann Geiler compared the order of cards in the game "Ludus Caesaris, Kaiserspiel vel Karnoeflius" to the social order, lamenting that "everything is turned upside down" in Karnöffel. This passage confirms the idea, that Karnoeffel and Kaisern were considered the same game in this time.
More details in the German language text of https://kaisern.flow-akademie.ch/texte/ ... lspiel.pdf
a. Preaching at 1st of March 1496 with the theme "devil as Wannenkremer" ... the Wannenkremer sells also playing cards. 2 Latin versions were printed in 1515 and 1519. A German edition with some changes was printed in 1521.
b. Preaching at Sunday of Invocavit 1498, printed in Strassburg 1510 as “Navicula sive speculum fatuorum” and in German language as "Des hochwirdigen Doctor Keiserberg Narrenschiff", translated by Fr. Pauli 1519 and printed in Strassburg 1520. Karnöffel is accepted as a game of skill and not seen as a game of luck.
c. Preaching in 1508, translated 1515 und printed in Strassburg 1517. The 21. Preaching is about “Von dem bösen Wannenkremer”.
(I attempted to find the original texts, but failed. )
Good info to Geiler von Kaisersberg and his notes to Karöffel game is given in the good article in German language by Jürgen Ludwig.
https://kaisern.flow-akademie.ch/texte/ ... lspiel.pdf

1503/04 - Chronicle of Bern by Valerius Anshelm
The year 1502 starts at page 178.
At page 248 "Nöffel" and "Keiser" are noted as different card games, which appeared in recent time.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1033&p=15397#p15397

1531 Elsterberg, city statutes
Karnöffeln is an allowed game, but players are not allowed to have a higher loss than 5 Groschen at a day.
"Auß der karten sollen alle spiele ausgenommen karnöffeln, eins und dreysigk und eins und hundert und menneln, doch also, dass niemand über fünf groschen auf einen tag verspiehle, zugelaßen werden. Wer solches übertreten würde, der soll oben angezeigte poen nehmlich zehen groschen verfallen seyn; dergleichen soll wirth und wirthin, so sie solches gestatten und nicht wehreten, mit obberührter poen so oft es geschieht gestrafet werden. Würde aber der spieler einer oder mehr sich unterstehen und so er obangezeigte zahl verspielet, damit er ferner zu spielen macht hatt, fürsetzlich in genannte buß fallen, die auch geben und förder spielen wollte, derselbige soll ohne mittel nach unsern gefallen am leibe gestraft werden.
http://www.lupano.de/wp-content/uploads ... erberg.pdf

1537 Germany - A Protestant satirical work uses the allegory of Karnöffel to berate the Pope.
Ein Frage des gantzen heiligen Ordens der Kartenspieler vom Karnöffel: an das Concilium zu Mantua
Martin Luther (?)
Nickel Shirlentz, 1537 - Reformation - 8 pages
http://books.google.de/books?id=0_dbAAA ... &q&f=false

1545 Zürich
Sprüchwörter gemeiner teutscher Nation, nüwlich in kommliche Ordnung gestellt und gebessert
Eustachius Froschouer (printer), 1545
https://books.google.de/books?id=L1NOAA ... te&f=false
Dem affen ein krentzlin ufsetzend, un purpurkleid anlegend, ja beschärend, und an lyb und seel äffend. Das sind lieben kind, der welt holderstock, die machet man zu Paner, karnüffel und Papst in Karten, die schübt man hinfür, und tregt sy wie heilthumb uff den achßlen (Dann diewyl sy die welt heilend, heiligend und sägnend, ist es billich daß ein esel den anderen knepple, un ein hand die ander jucke) die pflanzet, heget und ufnet die blind welt zu ihrem verderben.
https://books.google.de/books?id=L1NOAA ... te&f=false

1546 Germany
Another Protestant work, in the form of a dialogue between the Devil and the Pope, includes information about a number of rules of play.
Schnauss, Cyriacus: Pasquillus. Newe Zeytung Vom Teüffel. Wie newlich der Bapst vnd sein Gesell Der oberst Sathanas auß der Hell. Von jrer gsellschafft vnd disem Kryg Sprach gehalten vnd wem sy den Syg. All baid hertzlich gern günnen wolten ... [Augsburg] 1546
http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/0 ... 731_6.html
To the same topic:
Historisches Taschenbuch
Friedrich von Raumer, Wilhelm Heinrich Riehl, Wilhelm Maurenbrecher
F.A. Brockhaus, 1838 - History
http://books.google.de/books?id=T6cFAAA ... el&f=false

???? Wickram poem "Der Spyler spricht zum Ekhart"
http://books.google.de/books?id=K5Jxq9x ... el&f=false

1562
Wider die bœsen Sieben/|| ins Teufels Karnœffelspiel.|| M.Cyriacus Spangenberg.||. Jena : Richtzenhan, Donat und Rebart, Thomas, 1562
http://digitale.bibliothek.uni-halle.de ... ure/997638

1572 (also 1588, 1593, 1620, 1637)
Kaisern in Nidwalden and other central Swiss regions
Der Geschichtsfreund : Mitteilungen des Historischen Vereins Zentralschweiz, Band 139 (1986)
Artikel: Die drei ältesten Innerschweizer Kartenspiele und ihre Regeln : Kultur im Kartenspiel
by Dr. Peter F. Kopp, Solothurn (23-46)
https://www.e-periodica.ch/digbib/view? ... 139::25#25

1648
The Karnöffel variant Stýrivolt is noted: "According to the catalogue "Trumpf på hand: en historia om svenska spelkort", Uddevalla, 1993, on page 8, the poem "Herkules", published in 1648 by the Swedish poet, Georg Stiernhielm, mentions some 15 different card games including one called "stýr-wålt"."
https://www.pagat.com/karnoeff/styrivolt.html
About Stýrivolt and other Northern Karnöffel variants:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1033&p=15395#p21549

1664
Titel: Carnüffel-Spiel des Teuffels, dadurch er als ein Tausentkünstler, vielen Millionen Menschen, bisshero Himmel, Seel und Seeligkeit abgewonnensichern/hat, der rohen Welt auss christlicher Intention, zur treuhertzigen Warnung beschrieben ...
Author: Cristian Warner (3. printing)
Location: Quedlinburg
Publisher: Ockell
https://books.google.de/books/about/Car ... edir_esc=y
http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin. ... D=LOG_0004
viewtopic.php?t=345&start=120#p9683
According http://docplayer.org/56225930-Der-karno ... araus.html the text appeared during the Tridentische Konzil (1546-1563). It wasn't possible, to verify this.

1783 Thuringia, Germany
"The earliest detailed account of the manner of play comes from an article published in a German periodical of 1783, describing Karniffle as then played among the Thuringian peasantry." "The Thuringian and Frisian versions have the surprising feature of having two trump suits, while the Swiss forms have only one."
Der Teutsche Merkur in 1783 ... books.google.de/books?id=4aMIL8qAEusC&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70
Discussion ... viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1033&p=21548#p21548

1790 ("1720" at google is reading error) Brünn (Brno today)
Oeconomische Encyklopädie, oder allgemeines System der Staats-Stadt-Haus- und Landwirthschaft, in alphabetischer Ordnung: Nebst 33. Kupfertafeln. von Kamp bis Karo. Vier und dreyßigster Theil, Band 34
Johann Georg Krünitz
printed by Joseph Georg Traßler, Buchdrucker, Buch- und Kunsthändler, 1720 - 771 Seiten, at Brünn (Brno)
https://books.google.de/books?id=y6c-c7 ... is&f=false
... short report in dictionary with a reference to the Karnöffelversion of 1783.

c. 1820: "Karnöffelamt" in Neumünster (Schleswig Holstein - Fastnacht celebration)
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1033&p=15396#p15396

Researches about the word Karnöffel

Beiträge zur germanischen Sprach- und Kulturgeschichte
von Heinrich Schröder ...
Published 1906 by C. Winter in Heidelberg .
https://archive.org/stream/beitrgezurge ... search/109

IN WORK
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Collection ... Karnöffel

#2
1820
A Karnöffelamt in Neumünster


reported by
Sagenbuch des preussischen Staats. 2 Bd, Volume 2
Johann Georg Theodor Grässe
Carl Flemming, 1871 - Legends
http://books.google.de/books/about/Sage ... edir_esc=y
page 1005
presented also at ...
http://www.zeno.org/Literatur/M/Gr%C3%A ... C3%BCnster
1235. Das Karnüffelamt zu Neumünster.

[1005] (S. Jahrb. f. Schleswig Bd. VI. S. 398.)

Es ist bekannt, daß unter allen zu Anfang des 16. Jhdts. in Deutschland getriebenen Kartenspielen das sogenannte Karnüffelspiel das beliebteste war. In Holstein scheint es sehr im Schwunge gewesen zu sein, wenigstens bestand noch im Jahre 1820 in Neumünster das sogenannte Karnüffel-Amt, zu dem freilich das Kartenspiel wohl nur zufällig Veranlassung gab.
Zur Fastnacht hielt es seine gewöhnliche possierliche Sitzung, zu welcher durch den Umzug eines Boten eingeladen ward. In alten Zeiten trug dieser die Jacke eines Hanswursts, später die grüne Uniform eines Gildeoffiziers. Er fuhr, einen blanken Säbel in der Hand, in einem offenen Wagen herum, dem zwei Trompeter auf Schimmeln blasend vorritten und kund machten, daß an dem Abend das Karnüffelamt gehalten werden solle.
Man wählte nun zwei Altermänner, welche vor der geöffneten Lade ihren Sitz hatten, der erste von ihnen hielt einen dicken würfelförmig verzierten Stab, Maker oder Merker genannt, in der Hand und schlug mit demselben auf den Tisch, wenn er Stille verlangte. Dann forderte er die Mitglieder des Amtes auf, vor der Lade zu erscheinen, ihre Zwistigkeiten entscheiden zu lassen und gegen die angebrachten Klagen sich zu rechtfertigen. Zwei Kretler wurden zu Anwälten bestellt, und je burlesker sie die vor Gericht plaidirenden Advocaten darstellten, desto mehr wurden sie bewundert.[1005] Die Schuldigbefundenen wurden sodann mit einer geringen Geldbuße an die Lade belegt. Wer in das Amt aufgenommen zu werden begehrte, trat alsdann vor die Lade und gab sein Begehren kund, indem er zugleich als Receptionsgebühr einige Schillinge erlegte. Darauf ward er feierlich und laut zum Mitbruder erklärt und es wurden ihm sodann die Privilegien der Zunft (z.B. freies Licht bei Tage, unentgeldliche Stubenfeuerung in den Sommermonaten, freie Jagd auf dem Einfelder See, ungehinderte Fischerei auf der Bordesholmer Heide etc.) durch ein förmliches Patent mitgetheilt. Der Wirth gab an diesem Tage bis zu einer gewissen Summe freie Zeche und die Versammlung ward mit Tanz beschlossen. Unter ähnlichen Ceremonien ward (1820) das neue Scherwenzelamt gehalten.

S. darüber Milbiller Forts. zu Risbeck's Geschichte d. Deutschen Bd. IV. 8. S. 283 etc. Eine Karnöffelgesellschaft besteht noch jetzt zu Landshut in Schlesien (s. Schles. Zeit. 1850 Nr. 196. 1854 Nr. 425.)
Around 1820 Carnival or Fastnacht in Germany had a lot of new developments, so for instance in Cologne and Düsseldorf (after French troops had occupied greater parts of Germany a longer time under Napoleon).

In this context some carnivalists or anti-carnivalists in Schleswig-Holstein (Schleswig Holstein isn't known for big carnivalism nowadays) had the idea to celebrate a Karnüffelamt (in replacement of a usual election of a prince of Karneval). Anyway, they had some fun, and there was enough free drinking and finally some dancing. And everybody got the privilege of "free light during day" and "free heating in summertime" and "free hunting at the Einfelder Lake" and "free fishing at the Borderhemer Heide" (which has no water at all).

And somehow there was also Scherwenzelamt, either this or the next year (Scherwenzel is another card game).
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Collection ... Karnöffel

#3
1503/04 - Nöffel and Keiser appear in Chronicle Bern by Valerius Anshelm

Valerius Anshelm's, genannt Rüd, Berner-Chronik von Anfang der Stadt Bern bis 1526, Band 3
Valerius Anshelm, Rudolf Emanuel Stierlin, Johann Rudolf Wyss
bey L.A. Haller, 1827
http://books.google.de/books?id=vEAPAAA ... en&f=false

The year number 1503 appears at page 210, the entry "Nöffel, Keiser" at page 248, the year 1505 appears at page 271 (year 1504 is missing ?)

Valerius Anshelm
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerius_Anshelm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerius_Anshelm

"Nöffel" (Karnöffel) and "Keiser" (otherwise Kaisern, Keyzerspiel) are noted as new games in Bern in the last 10 years. Dryschlahen is another old game. "Troggen" or another old name of Tarot isn't mentioned.
Karnöffel and Keiserspiel are taken by Geiler von Kaisersberg as the same game (1496), in Bern 1502 they are considered as the same game.
Image
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Collection ... Karnöffel

#4
Karnöffel version in Thüringen, observed in 1783
(very different from the version of mid 16th century)
Der Teutsche Merkur in 1783
books.google.de/books?id=4aMIL8qAEusC&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70

permanent trumps:
Green 8 ... called Tolle or altes Thier (old animal), highest trump
Red 9 ... called rotes Thier (red animal), second highest trump
Yellow 9 ... called gelbes Thier (yellow animal), 3rd highest trump
----
other trumps in selected trump-suit:
Trump Ober ... called Oberkarniffel or Landsknecht (or Fauler Fritz or Fauler Schlingel)
Trump Unter ... called Unterkarniffel or Büttel (or Fauler Fritz or Fauler Schlingel)
Trump 6 ... Pope
Trump 8 ... called Freykarte
Trump 2 ... called Dauß or Kaiser, no trump value
Trump King ... called Panier, no trump value
---
ranking of cards, which are not trump:
Ober/Unter - 6 - 8 - 9 - 2 - King - 10
---
7, the devil, can't be played as the first card in the first trick of a game. The devil can't be trumped, and it cannot trump other cards. If it is the first card in a trick, it wins the trick (? I'm not sure, if all 7s are handled in this way in this Karnöffel version).

Trump Unter and Trump Ober can only be used, when all other trumps had been used (?, I'm not sure, how this rule works in practice).
There are two teams of either 2 or 3 players. Each player gets 5 cards, so 20 or 30 cards are distributed. Then 2 cards are opened, which decide 2 trump suits. If only one suit is opened (when one suit appeared twice) another card is opened till there are 2 trump suits. If a player has a 10 (low card) of a trump color, he can exchange one of the opened cards (which is higher than the 10) against the 10.

Players must play higher trumps to tricks, if possible.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Collection ... Karnöffel

#5
https://www.pagat.com/ has a page called "Karnöffel group" https://www.pagat.com/karnoeff/
Card Games: Karnöffel Group

This is a very old group of trick taking games - the earliest reference is from 1426. Karnöffel was one of the first games to introduce a kind of trump suit - a suit whose cards had increased power, and were able to beat cards of other suits. It is possible that Karnöffel predated the invention of tarot, though it was from tarot, not Karnöffel, that the idea of a trump suit spread to the majority of European trick-taking games. In Karnöffel games the "trump" suit is properly called the chosen suit. Instead of designating a whole suit as trumps and having it rank in the same order internally as the other suits, the power to beat cards of the other suits was assigned only to certain cards of the chosen suit, and the ranking among these cards was quite different from the ranking in the unchosen suits.

Descendents of this game are still played in Switzerland and in Scandinavia. They can be recognised by the wildly disturbed card order, and the special property of the seven of a chosen suit. A chosen seven cannot win a trick unless it is led, but if a chosen seven is led it cannot be beaten, or can only be beaten by a limited number of specific cards.

The closest modern game to the original Karnöffel is the Swiss Kaiserspiel, also known as Kaiserjass though it is unrelated to Jass games proper.
https://www.pagat.com/karnoeff/karnoeffel.html .... Karnöffel
https://www.pagat.com/karnoeff/kaiserja.html ... Kaiserspiel

In the Scandinavian versions the number of chosen suits was increased. Some games had two chosen suits:
https://www.pagat.com/karnoeff/styrivolt.html ... Styrivolt

There are also games in which all four suits are chosen - in the sense that all suits have the disturbed order and all the sevens have the special property:
https://www.pagat.com/karnoeff/vorms.html ... Voormsi
https://www.pagat.com/karnoeff/brus.html ... Brus
https://www.pagat.com/karnoeff/alkort.html ... Alkort
https://www.pagat.com/karnoeff/treikort.html ... Treikort

My notes:

Styrivolt
4 players in 2x2 partnership, 48 cards (no 10s), 9 tricks (36 cards are distributed), played today in Faröer Island at least for 200 years, originally from Denmark, where it is mentioned in 1648
5 high trumps are permanent (2H 4C 8S 9H 9D), other lower trumps are determined by the choice of 2 trump suits
The lower trump system is complicated and similar to the system of the 4-Emperors in the document of 1546.

Vormsi
national game of Greenland with many variants, versions for 4, 3 and 2 players, normally 4 players with 36 cards
A, K, Q, J, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5 in each of the four suits, clubs, spades, hearts and diamonds, except that the King of Diamonds is nowadays replaced by the 3. But the cards do not rank in the standard order. Special rule about the 7s.
The highest two cards, equal in rank, are the Jack of Clubs, called Toqutsit (Greenlandic for "your executioner", literally "he who kills (you)" ) or Toqu (Greenlandic for "death") and the King of Hearts, called Voormsi (not a native Greenlandic word). These are pronounced approximately as if spelled "dogutsit" and "woormsi" in English. If both of these cards are played to the same trick, the second to be played beats the first.
The third highest card is the Eight of Spades.
Next after the spade8 come, in descending order, the Nines, the Aces, the remaining Jacks, the Sixes, Fives, the remaining Eights, the Queens and the remaining Kings (lowest). Within each denomination the cards rank Club (high), Spade, Heart, Diamond (low).
The 3 of Diamonds is worthless if led and anything beats it, but is unbeatable when it is added to a trick. It beats even Sevens and Sevens headed by black kings.
The Sevens are worthless unless led (or played as second card when the 3 of Diamonds has been led), but can then be beaten only by a Seven in a higher suit, or by the diamond3, or by the King of Clubs, which has the special power of beating all Sevens but is otherwise the second lowest card. Cards (other than diamond3) played between the Seven and the King of Clubs do not prevent the King of Clubs heading the trick.
If a Seven is led and has been beaten by the King of Clubs, then the King of Clubs can in turn be beaten by the King of Spades, provided that the spadeK is played directly on the clubK, with no intervening plays. In other circumstances the spadeK is the very lowest card; it has no direct power over Sevens and the clubK beats it.
Brus
4 or 6 players in partnership, 36 cards (2-5 are missing) , game continues till one team gets 6 tricks (!!! special rule), played in Sweden
trumps JC (Sit), 8S (Dull), KH (Brus), 9s, Aces, Jacks, 6s, ... 7s as usual ... rest is rubbish

Alkort
4 players in 2x2 partnership, 44 cards (no 5s and no 10s), 9 tricks, played in Iceland
Ranking: The KD is highest (except when a 7 is led); then in order 2H, 4C, 8S, 9H, 9D. Next come the Aces, then the Jacks, the Sixes (póstarnir) and the Eights (friðurnar) except 8S. The rest, beside the 7s with special function, are rubbish cards.

Treikort
also called 3-man Alkort - 3 players, 27 cards, 9 tricks, played in Iceland, before in Denmark
QC (highest unless a 7 is led), 2S, KD, 2H, 4C, 8S, 9H, 9D, Aces, Jacks, Sixes, Eights (except 8S). In addition to these there are the four sevens.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Collection ... Karnöffel

#6
That's a lot! Thanks for all of it. I especially liked your link to the Meissner thread, viewtopic.php?f=12&t=416&p=5180&hilit=k ... ffel#p5180

What do you get from the Meissner poem about the trump structure? It seems to me to talk about four trumps: Karnöffel , Devil, Pope, Kaiser.

What does "Karnöffel" mean? Is it "scrotal hernia" as Parlett says, in other words a defect in the genitals? In English, "offal" is waste, especially animal intestines after slaughter. I can't find any documentation of a connection between the words.

Can you comment on the accuracy of David Parlett at https://www.parlettgames.uk/histocs/karnoeffel.html?

What do you think of what you wrote back in 2009, especially in relation to the ur-tarot? It seems to me realistically possible, and perhaps distinct from "VIII Imperadori", as there are only four trumps higher than kings. I don't see evidence of doubling the 4 in the game, above King.

Re: Collection ... Karnöffel

#7
mikeh wrote:
18 Feb 2020, 14:44
What do you get from the Meissner poem about the trump structure? It seems to me to talk about four trumps: Karnöffel , Devil, Pope, Kaiser.
Beside the "8 Imperatori cards" the Mysner info is the earliest, that we have, and it tells, that there is a difference to the later info about rules. "Heilije Lerer" (holy teachers) are mentioned and it is a plural, not a singular expression. So possibly 4 holy teachers. Further there is a "Heintz eff mich wohl", which possibly is a foolish figure. [/quote]
13. Die müssen dem Karnöffel aufwarten (bedienen)
mit Leib und Gut
Das niemand verschlag (?) eine Karte,
wenn es verboten ist.
Und das Geld stets auf der ban (? auf dem Tisch ? im Auge behalten ?)
sonst kommt "Heintz eff mich wohl"
der zieht es gar bald davon.
Heintz might be a normal human thief, who steals money at the playing card table, or a game figure as the "Fauler Fritz", who appears in the Karnöffel versions of 1537/1546, there an Ober-card, who presents the monks society. The word "eff", difficult to understand, likely comes from äffen or nachäffen and this comes from Affe (monkey).
What does "Karnöffel" mean? Is it "scrotal hernia" as Parlett says, in other words a defect in the genitals? In English, "offal" is waste, especially animal intestines after slaughter. I can't find any documentation of a connection between the words.
Karnöffel means a lot of things. There was a Karnöffelhammer, which was used to beat small mountains and valley in metal objects, effects which done could be done by brutal humans to others or by specific sicknesses. Therefore also the idea, that Karnöffel became an expression for brutal foot soldiers (the Unter was a Foot soldier, in contrast to the Ober, who could have a horse).
I still give my own early suggestion some chance to be correct, that Karnöffel developed from the very foreign Ganjifah/Kanjifah.
The term Kanjifah can be found in the 1839 Calcutta edition of the One Thousand and One Nights, in Arabic, at the end of night 460. The first known reference can be found in a 15th-century Arabic text, written by the Egyptian historian Ibn Taghribirdi (died 1470). In his history of Egypt he mentions how the Sultan Al-Malik Al-Mu'ayyad played kanjafah for money when he was an emir.[11]
The cards used by the Mamluks most likely entered Italy and Spain during the 1370s.[12] As early as 1895, William Henry Wilkinson pointed out the similarities between Spanish and Italian playing cards and Chinese money-suited cards.[13] He was unaware of the existence of the Mamluk cards since Mayer did not make his discovery until 1939. The similarities between the Latin European cards and Chinese money-suited cards become more apparent when the Mamluk Kanjifa is described. Looking at the actual games played with Ganjifa cards, Andrew Leibs points out that the cards are divided into strong and weak suits, and in one set the order of the numerical cards is reversed, so that the order runs King, Vizier, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 the weakest. This feature can also be found in the old games of Tarot, Ombre, and Maw played in Europe, and the Chinese money-suited card game of 'Madiao'. He suggests these games may have a common ancestor.[14]
Kanjifa consists of 52 cards divided into four suits.
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganjifa
German crusaders to the Holy Land had friendly contacts to Mongols, which helped them against the Mamluks. They proceeded their cruel business east of Germany in Prussia and Poland. We have notes about card playing in 1308 and c. 1330 in East Prussia, which, however, are considered as forgeries for political reasons. Nonetheless the details about an early playing card use might be correct, cause we have a massive probability for early playing cards in Nuremberg and Prague. Probability, not evidence.
Can you comment on the accuracy of David Parlett at https://www.parlettgames.uk/histocs/karnoeffel.html?
The idea of a general one-way-reconstruction is necessarily wrong, when the real old reality knew various versions of Karnöffel at different times and different locations. Parlett gives his Karnöffel the quality of a 5-trick-game. The majority of Karnöffel variants doesn't have this quality. The Swiss "Kaisern" is described
with this quality, which is close in time to the version of 1537/1546. Geiler describes Karnöffel and Kaisern as identical, but the Karnöffel version of 1496-1508
(Geiler's time) is not necessarily identical to that 1537-1546 (The 4 emperors in the Kaisern version are the 4 banners or 10s, the 4 emperors in the Karnöffel are the trump-row-numbers 2-3-4-5 and the game function of the Kaisers is rather different.)
Game reconstructions create somehow an additional variant, which naturally confuses the picture und complicates it. Naturally it has some value for persons, who are not interested in the many details.
What do you think of what you wrote back in 2009, especially in relation to the ur-tarot? It seems to me realistically possible, and perhaps distinct from "VIII Imperadori", as there are only four trumps higher than kings. I don't see evidence of doubling the 4 in the game, above King.
Kaisern, Karnöffel 1537/46 and Styrivalt 1648 use the 4-Kaiser-idea (in variation), the other versions not.
... I don't know, what I wrote in 2009, you have to ask more precisely.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Collection ... Karnöffel

#8
Thanks. So in other words, nobody knows what it would have been like in 1425 or so.

What about this for as much as can be said, for trumps above the king: some high figures, Emperors, one up to four, and a Pope, plus some low figures, in the sense of disreputible the Karnoffel, one or more? Anything else, like second in commands? Is the Pope secure?

In your response of 12 Feb in the thread Marziano to the Ludus Triumphorum, to my invocation of Karnoffel as a possible predecessor to the Ludus Triumphorum, another thing I get of relefance is that in the later reference, 1540s, the four Emperors included representatives of the four ancient empires, as in John of Rheinfelden. Is that secure, our your theory?

I still don't know how you get from four emperors to eight emperors, other than that "VIII Imperadori" was the name of a game. Would the other four come from the same empires as the first four? Are they low characters, in the sense of ruffians or deceivers or devils? Or could they be low in the sense of second in command, i.e. second highest? Any females?

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