lamort wrote:Maybe say this is imprudent, but in the case of Vieville, it could not be a bell?
(I do not know the translation adapted for ¨cencerro¨, cowbell?)

Yes, I have wondered about a bell as well, and have seen other people mention it too!

robert wrote:

lamort wrote:Maybe say this is imprudent, but in the case of Vieville, it could not be a bell?
(I do not know the translation adapted for ¨cencerro¨, cowbell?)

Yes, I have wondered about a bell as well, and have seen other people mention it too!

¿ ?

EUGIM wrote:Thanks Ross.

The point is as follows.

1+-Catelin has it. / TdP also.
2-Visconti has not
3-Tarot de Marseille has it

* So how consider a Milanese pattern instead here of a Ferrarese ?

Just empirically, since the B/Eastern order has it, the latern is not necessarily a particularity of non-Italian packs.

No one that I know argues that the Visconti Sforza *images* should be considered the direct forerunner of the standard Milanese pack of circa 1500, which most people (after Dummett) take to be the Cary Sheet. The Visconti Sforza designs don't seem to have been the model for a printed pack. There is nothing preventing a cross-fertilization of Ferrara and France. The word "tareaux/tarocho/i" occurs first in both places, nearly simultaneously - it should mean a popular kind of pack. One of them could have invented the lantern.

Obviously we can't see the Hermit on the Cary Sheet - we don't know what he was holding. There are enough differences between it and the Tarot de Marseille to make us cautious about guessing.

I should note also that Robert made a discovery regarding the Cary Sheet - the seven and eight (?) of Batons at the bottom right seem to be glued in.

So it's really Cary "Sheets" - if they are even part of the same style of cards, which might be an open question.