French web links to history and iconography of Tarots

#511
Aparte

On the French Web, we have very few valuable ressources written in French - of interest for beginners and specialists.

I have selected, from Mikeh bibliography in the West Library of THF, two links with printables versions.

Historical studies :
TAROT JEU ET MAGIE Thierry DEPAULIS, 1984 : Exposition BnF
Link : http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6532698n.
Image : http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6 ... f1.highres


Iconographical studies :
LA CARAVANE DU TAROT : HISTOIRE ART MAGIE : Exhibit international Le Tarot
Version française révisée 2017 imprimable PDF 9 pages
Link : https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Hg6j ... ZQeHc/view
Image : http://letarot.it/cgi-bin/pages/mostre/ ... nazion.jpg

Nota :the section l'Harmonie céleste is yet to be revised and updated with the latest discoveries...
Two or three weeks more I think

Link to the West Linrary on THF :
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1146&p=18567#p18567
http://www.sgdl-auteurs.org/alain-bouge ... Biographie

Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - la séquence 1+4+7+10 = 22

#512
Since this seems to be a thread for French-language sources, and also because it fits the theme of the "three groups" and their characterization (now made into four groups by the Tarot Arithmologique), I want to post, in French and English, Depaulis's characterization of the whole sequence, in his Tarot Révélé of 2013, pp. 68-69. In my view the whole little book is worth the small investment (79 pages of text), for Francophones (and anyone else with access to scanning, OCR software and Google Translate).
Les tarots ont-ils un sens?

Si les têtes des quatre couleurs du tarot, rois, dames, cavaliers et valets, ne posent pas de problème particulier, car on retrouve les uns et les autres dans les jeux ordinaires, d'où ils sont issus, la série des atouts des tarots « italiens » est plus complexe à comprendre. Avouons-le d'emblée, nul n'a trouvé à ce jour les clés qui permettraient d'en livrer une interprétation convaincante.

On s'est pourtant préoccupé assez tôt de donner un sens à ces figures. Ainsi nous connaissons deux discorsi italiens des années 1560 à peu près contemporains, mais éloignés par la géographie (et l'ordre des atouts...) qui tentent de percer la signification de ces cartes (40). L'un et l'autre y voient des références chrétiennes, une sorte de parcours vers Dieu. Francesco Piscina (1565) analyse les « triomphes » comme autant d'étapes à franchir vers les « choses célestes » représentées par les cartes du Monde et du Jugement (ici, vu comme le paradis), tandis que l'anonyme Discorso perché fosse trovato il giuoco, et particolarmente quello del Tarocco s'aide de citations d'auteurs antiques pour justifier le cheminement qui mène à Dieu. Il distingue deux segments dans la série, les allégories qui viennent au-dessous du Diable — la « vie active » —, puis le reste des cartes, de l'Etoile au Monde — la « vie contemplative ». Piscina voyait plutôt trois sections : au-dessous de la Roue de Fortune, les figures trahissent qu'elles sont le jouet de la Fortune, les figures au-dessous de la Mort ne peuvent que périr un jour.

il faut attendre la fin du XVIIIe siècle pour retrouver un autre discours savant sur les atouts du tarot. C'est celui, célèbre entre tous, d'Antoine Court de Gébelin, pasteur protestant revenu en France, franc-maçon et auteur d'une imposante somme encyclopédique, Monde primitif analysé et comparé avec le monde moderne, dont neuf volumes parurent de 1775 à 1784. Court propose, dans le tome VIII de son ouvrage (1781), un chapitre entier sur le tarot, que complète un « collaborateur », identifié par la critique moderne avec Louis-Raphaël-Lucrèce de Fayolle, comte de Mellet. Les deux auteurs, avec leurs nuances, rattachent le tarot à une origine antique, y voient « un Livre Égyptien échappé à la barbarie », « fondé sur le nombre septenaire ». Le comte de Mellet parle de « Livre de Thot », de « Siècle d'or » et de divination, ouvrant la voie à la cartomancie moderne.

Faute de pouvoir suivre les élucubrations égyptisantes de Court de Gébelin et de ses émules, il faut en revenir plus modestement à ce que pressentaient nos auteurs du XV1e siècle: la série des atouts classiques paraît être une sorte de cheminement vers Dieu et le monde céleste à travers diverses conditions, humaines d'abord, puis spirituelles. C'est bien évidemment accepter l'idée que la suite des atouts du tarot forme un discours cohérent et non une suite d'allégories jetées en vrac ou le fruit désordonné de tâtonnements incessants. Il est en effet probable que le tarot a bénéficié d'une « invention », née dans un milieu précis et lettré, et que les retouches y ont été mesurées. Si c'est bien le cas, la suite des triomphes a un sens général, les allégories n'étant pas placées là au hasard.

Si l'on admet que l'ordre A (voir chapitre 2, « Les trois traditions du tarot en Italie ») a pour lui plus de cohérence que les autres ordres, ce parcours pourrait être découpé entre trois segments. D'abord, une évocation de la vie sociale, du Fou au Pape, en passant par le Bateleur — figure du marchand ? —, l'Empereur et sa parèdre, et la Papesse; puis ce qu'un chercheur a appelé «les vicissitudes de la vie humaine », un groupe assez instable dans sa répartition, où se retrouvent les trois vertus cardinales, l'Amoureux et le Chariot, la Roue de Fortune, l'Ermite (en fait le Temps), le Pendu et la Mort, toujours en position 13 (41). Le groupe final, commençant au Diable et finissant au Jugement (dernier), car nous sommes ici, on l'a dit, dans l'ordre A, expose l'ascension de l'enfer (le Diable) à la lumière qui ressuscite les morts (le Jugement), passant, peut-être, par les Limbes (la « Maison-Dieu »). Le Monde serait une représentation de la terre, habitat des hommes.
_____________
40. Ross Caldwell, Thierry Depaulis, Marco Ponzi, Explaining the Tarot: two Italian Renaissance essays on the meaning of the Tarot pack. Oxford, 2010.
41. Michael J. Hurst, à qui j'empreunte cette « lecture », pense que cette segment s'inspirer du De casibus virorum illustrium (« La chute des hommes illustres ») de Boccace.

[Does the tarot have a meaning?

If the heads of the four suits of the tarot, kings, ladies, knights and valets, pose no particular problem, as they are found in the ordinary games from which they come, the series of the trumps [atouts] of the "Italian" tarot is more complex to understand. Let us admit it from the start: no one has yet found the keys to a convincing interpretation.

Yet people were soon enough concerned to give meaning to these figures. Thus we know two Italian discourses of the 1560s, more or less contemporary, but distant by geography (and order of trumps ...), which try to pierce the meaning of these cards (40). Both see Christian references, a sort of journey towards God. Francesco Piscina (1565) analyzes the "triumphs" as steps to be taken to the "heavenly things" represented by the cards of the World and the Judgment (here, seen as paradise), while the anonymous Discorso perché fosse trovato il giuoco, et particolarmente quello del Tarocco uses quotations from ancient authors to justify the journey that leads to God. He distinguishes two segments in the series, allegories that come below the Devil - the "active life" - and then the rest of the cards, from the Star to the World - the "contemplative life." Piscina saw rather three sections: beneath the Wheel of Fortune, the figures betray that they are the plaything of Fortune, the figures below Death can only perish one day.

We have to wait until the end of the 18th century to find another learned discourse on the advantages of the tarot. It is the celebrated one of Antoine Court de Gebelin, a Protestant pastor come to France, a Freemason and author of an imposing encyclopedic summation, Monde primitif analysé et comparé avec le monde moderne [Primitive world analyzed and compared with the modern world], of which nine volumes appeared from 1775 to 1784. Court presents, in Volume VIII of his work (1781), an entire chapter on tarot, complete with a "collaborator", identified by modern criticism with Louis-Raphael-Lucrece de Fayolle, Comte de Mellet. The two authors, with their nuances, attach the tarot to an ancient origin, and see it as "an Egyptian Book escaped from barbarism", "based on the septenary number". Count de Mellet speaks of "Book of Thoth", "Golden Age", and divination, opening the way to modern cartomancy.

In the absence of being able to follow the Egyptianizing elucubrations of Court de Gébelin and his emulators, we must return more modestly to what our authors of the 16th century sensed: the series of classical trumps seems to be a sort of journey towards God and the heavenly world through various conditions, first human, then spiritual. It is evidently to accept the idea that the series of the tarot trumps forms a coherent discourse and not a series of allegories thrown in a heap or the disorderly fruit of incessant gropings. It is in fact probable that the tarot has benefited from an "invention", born in a precise literary environment, and that the retouches there have been measured. If this is indeed the case, the series of triumphs has a general meaning, the allegories not being placed there at random.

If one accepts that the A order (see Chapter 2, "The three traditions of the tarot in Italy") has more coherence for one than the other orders, this path could be divided into three segments. First, an evocation of social life, from the Fool to the Pope, through the Bateleur [Magician] - figure of the merchant? - the Emperor and his wife, and the Popess; Then what one researcher has called "the vicissitudes of human life", a rather unstable group in its distribution, where the three cardinal virtues are found, the Lover and the Chariot, the Wheel of Fortune, the Hermit (in fact Time), the Hanged Man and Death, always in position 13 (41). The final group, beginning with the Devil and finishing with the Last Judgment - for we are here, as we have said, in order A - shows the ascent from hell (the Devil) to the light that resurrects the Dead (the Judgment), passing, perhaps, through Limbo (the "Maison-Dieu"). The World would be a representation of the earth, the habitat of men.
_______________
40. Ross Caldwell, Thierry Depaulis, Marco Ponzi, Explaining the Tarot: two Italian Renaissance essays on the meaning of the Tarot pack. Oxford, 2010.
41. Michael J. Hurst, to whom I owe this "reading", thinks that this segment is inspired by Boccaccio's De casibus virorum illustrium ("The Fall of Illustrious Men").]
Well, yes, that’s it in a nutshell, although the Tarot Arithologique takes exception to the first section, at least by the time of the early lists. Four leading figures, one of them not an actual person, are not exactly “human society”; it is not clear that the Bagat and Fool were part of the same “group”, at least by the time both lacked numbers in group A (so as to make Death come out 13, a number for which there is no evidence of its being considered unlucky before the tarot). Also, Depaulis's narrative could apply to B and C. Piscina’s sequence had Temperance as 14 (he offers no explanation, but we can suppose the virtue a temporary triumph over death, and the sphere of water), and the “vicissitudes of life” section does not have to include Justice. I will have to study "Casibus" to see if the whole section is laid out there. Up to now I have been supposing Boccaccio as a source only for the Wheel. Otherwise, there only remain details. Who is the Popess? Is the Bagat simply a merchant? Is this the original meaning, or one that developed as cards were added? Is it the only meaning consistent with the times? Do we need to suppose some “invention” apart from the sequence itself? What texts or traditions are being suggested, or amplified? We have discussed these issues and others at great length, and with great pleasure, just as must have been done then.

We are also back to Mr. Hurst, a nice memorial (3 years before his death) to his pioneering work on Depaulis's part.

Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - la séquence 1+4+7+10 = 22

#513
Mikeh

What an excellent initiative is this translation !
Thanks.
Depaulis is really worth the lecture...

And yes, what a nice memorial for M HURST.
He had, if I remember well some of his private posts, a real "admiration" for Depaulis - at least a true respect.
I'd say he is our French Dummett!
I have respect and am confident in his work as historian of cards and tarots. But he cannot do everything - and the iconographical study is, from my point of view, not of the same level as a Vitali for example...

I'll be away some time but I ll try to follow on my phone and I ll read if necessary better when I come back.

Pretty good work Mikeh - as usual!
http://www.sgdl-auteurs.org/alain-bouge ... Biographie

Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - la séquence 1+4+7+10 = 22

#514
There has been some question about whether Rene of Anjou and his wife Isabella of Lorraine would have known how to play tarot prior to being sent the two decks in 1449, given that the tarot had probably not yet spread to Naples. Now I read in Dale Kent, Cosimo de Medici and the Florentine Renaissance (2000), p. 193, that he arrived in Florence on July 15 or 16, 1442, as the Signoria were contemplating an alliance with him. He apparently stayed a while, because in the footnote to that paragraph (n. 209 p. 455) Kent cites a letter from Agnola Acciaiuoli to Cosimo in January 1442/43 (42 Florentine style) in which Rene is described as still courting the Signoria's favor. He would have had ample time on his hands to learn the game. It doesn't say if his wife was with him, but I would assume so. Kent cites the Archivio di Stato MAP (Medici avanti il Principato) v. 441 for the arrival and Fabroni, Magni Cosimo, 2, 164-5 for the letter.

Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - la séquence 1+4+7+10 = 22

#515
Excellent find Mikeh.

We have also the presence of Cossa that we know a little better now...
He's Senechal of Provence and loyal all the way to René - since 1442 at least.

Later on :
Another overlooked member of the Crescent Order : the chief of the Pazzi conspiration against the Medicis : Jacques de PAZZI..

He was said to be in Florence a "gambler"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Hg6j ... sp=sharing

Vie de laurent de Medicis p 79
https://books.google.fr/books?id=jwxmAA ... ur&f=false

He was close to René.
Jacques de Pazzi
Seigneur d'Aubignol et Loriol
Lord of Aubignan
http://wappenwiki.org/index.php/Chevaliers_du_Croissant
He was also :
Banquier,(1450?) Syndic et Consul d'Avignon (1452 and 1458)
Viguier de Marseille
Maître d' Hôtel de René d'Anjou
Chevalier de l' Ordre du Croissant

Chef de la Conjuration des PAZZI à Florence en 1478
"PAZZI (les), famille gibeline de Florence, originaire duvai d'Arno, où elle possédait de grands fiefs, et rivale acharnée de celle des Médicis. Comme les Médicis, par l'excès de leur puissance, mettaient en péril la liberté de la république, les Pazzi, affectant un grand zèle pour l'indépendance de leur patrie, résolurent de lui rendre son antique constitution. François Pazzi (neveu de Jacques P., qui était alors chef de cette maison) s'était établi à Rome et y était devenu banquier de Sixte IV : il entra en liaison avec Jérôme Riario, neveu de ce pape, et, de concert avec lui, il ourdit contre Julien et Laurent de Médicis, sous les auspices des cours de Rome et de Naples, la fameuse Conspiration dite des 'Pazzi. Le 26 avril 1478, François Pazzi et Bandini tuèrent Julien de Médicis, dans la cathédrale même de Florence; mais Laurent, son frère, échappa; il garda le pouvoir et punit les conspirateurs : Jacques et François Pazzi furent pendus. Immédiatement après éclatala Guerre des Passï, dans laquelle le pape, Naples et Sienne, attaquèrent Florence au cri de guerre à Médicis, paix à Florence ! (1478-80). "

See the genealogy FLORENCE AVIGNON of the PAZZI family
http://jean.gallian.free.fr/comm2/Image ... zi/p1a.pdf
http://www.sgdl-auteurs.org/alain-bouge ... Biographie

Re: French web links to history and iconography of Tarots

#516
BOUGEAREL Alain wrote:Aparte



Iconographical studies :
LA CARAVANE DU TAROT : HISTOIRE ART MAGIE : Exhibit international Le Tarot
Version française révisée 2017 imprimable PDF 9 pages
Link : https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Hg6j ... ZQeHc/view
Image : http://letarot.it/cgi-bin/pages/mostre/ ... nazion.jpg

Nota :the section l'Harmonie céleste is yet to be revised and updated with the latest discoveries...
Two or three weeks more I think
Re

Two sections are now updated in Italian and English

L' Harmonie céleste
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Hg6j ... sp=sharing

Tarot et cartomancie
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Hg6j ... sp=sharing
http://www.sgdl-auteurs.org/alain-bouge ... Biographie

France XVIII century and Tarots

#517
Rewording section III and opening topic about Le Jeu des Tarots in the XVIIIe century linked to Italy and France

The section III of the Caravane du Tarot notes :
"au début du 18 e siècle, ils furent importés d 'Italie en France et en particulier à Marseille dont l'iconographie fut à son tour reprise par les centres de production lombards et piémontais afin de rénover leur production"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Hg6j ... sp=sharing

The Caravan of Tarot notes first a movement from Italy from France followed after by a second movement in return from France to Italy.
Yet it seems that this affirmation would need to take in account the two following facts underlined by Isabelle Nadolny ,Librarian at the Bnf who accepted to revise the French translation at work
1. the Dodal of Lyon is made for exportation "fait pour l'étranger"
2. France under Louis XIV does not play anymore Tarot - so why should there be importations?

To introduce the question , she also transmitted me her notes from Depaulis Histoire du jeu :

"Sous le règne de Louis XIV le jeu connaît un déclin. Plus personne n'en parle, ni Mme de Sévigné, ni St-Simon qui citent pourtant des jeux en abondance.
Pourtant on continue de fabriquer des tarots au cours du XVIIIe siècle à Lyon, Grenoble, Dijon, Strasbourg, Besançon, Avignon et bien sûr Marseille.
Le tarot a été peu utilisé en France avant son retour avec la divination au XIXe siècle.

Le tarot de Dodal est destiné à l'exportation vers l'Italie (..) le marché devenait prometteur : l'Allemagne produisait peu de tarots, l'Italie n'en produisait presque plus."

Nota
We'll have to reword in the corpus of the text or insert an additionnal note in a maxima of four or five lines ...in final
The Caravan of Tarot is meant to be read by a large public...not only by historians of cards and tarots...
http://www.sgdl-auteurs.org/alain-bouge ... Biographie

Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - la séquence 1+4+7+10 = 22

#518
I have a question about this "Caravan". Where are these revisions eventually going to end up? Right now, they are simply online in a form only accessible by clicking on the links you provide in your post. Even then, you would not know that the link had an English translation unless you scrolled down to the middle of the document.

There is an exhibition catalog with the title indicated, in Italian, English, and French, online that can be reached from Andrea's site, but the link is difficult to find and does not contain the revisions. Is "Celestial Harmony" going to be in there, or is it a stand-alone web-page? And if stand-alone, how can one find it, other than going to the relevant post on THF? If it is intended for a large audience, it should be easy to find.

Also, given that there are revisions, there should be something indicating "revised version" with a date.

As I say, there remains the problem of finding the larger catalog in the three languages (which does not have the revisions, at least currently; nor does it have to). It is not at all easy to find, unless you know the title, which has a too-unusual first word (caravan) and a too-common later word (tarot). On Andrea's site, in Italian or English, you have to go to "Exhibitions" and then, on the side, "An International Exhibition" (not "Caravan") and then, once you are there,notice at the bottom of the page the words "get the whole project", which is the second choice (the first, "download Exhibition information" only gives you a summary). On the Italian side it is the same. To find the French version is even harder. You can link to it only by going to the English-language page and clicking on the third option, "Vous trouvez le projet ici." If a French person's Italian is better than their English, they won't find it. The link to the French should be in both places, given that there is not yet a special section for French, as opposed to Italian and English.

So until these problems are addressed (and I understand Andrea's time is very limited), the 9 pages should probably be stand-alone, but with links at the end to the larger catalog, stating that it does not have the revisions, but does have more material than in the 9 pages (unless you plan to incorporate it all). I am not sure where the 9 pages should go. But it does need to be easy to find.

Re: Le Tarot arithmologique - la séquence 1+4+7+10 = 22

#519
Hi Mikeh

Thank you for adressing to me all these legitimate considerations.

My take is triple.

1. I'll forward to Andrea your suggestions.
2. I will go on with what I now call a beta version in French
This Beta version shall be each time dated with the revision date;
For example, if I publish on January 22, it should be specified Beta French version revised January 22.
If I publish updates, for example on February 22, it should be specified Beta French version revised February 22.
Etc.
3. The place of the successives publications on line remains THF with google.drive PDF documents.

This option of mine takes in account your suggestion :
"So until these problems are addressed (and I understand Andrea's time is very limited), the 9 pages should probably be stand-alone, but with links at the end to the larger catalog, stating that it does not have the revisions, but does have more material than in the 9 pages (unless you plan to incorporate it all). I am not sure where the 9 pages should go. But it does need to be easy to find."

It also allows me to insert either in corpus or in links or in notes the updates- even if not published on Vitali's site.

Added January 20
In final, I do have some reasons to believe that the definitive French translation shall be published on Le Tarot - as well as the updated Italian and English versions (with a more clear presentation for the readers to find).

Nota
Nadolny suggests to keep in the 9 pages beta version the Catalogue 70 pages of references of the Exhibit, but in a Bibliography
http://www.sgdl-auteurs.org/alain-bouge ... Biographie

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