Hi mikeh!
It is not so much about the workshop the "cards" were made in because they (the cards) were not thought up there. I try to explain throughout the "Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret" thread that the source for the "content" (for what the "cards" are only a new "vessel") lies beyond Christianity.
The Visconti Tarots that you mention were not of perfect structure because Filippo was mostly self-educated in alchemy and geomantics (> where the 16 gods stem from) and he worked with what Ottone took over from the "dead saracen" - a "bestia" (Biscione) that he swore allegiance to with the words that became the Visconti motto: >> Vipereos mores non violabo << (I will not violate the Snake's uses > mores is translated here as "uses" but can also be: custom - tradition - commandment - and some other) when he was Archbishop of Milan.
Somewhere in the "Tarotée - The Back-Door To The Secret" I mention that this was similar to the Negroli name change - an announcement to the world and those who could READ that message that HE > Ottone and his house from that moment when the Biscione emerged in Milan would never oppose the Great Serpent.
I mentioned that the dead Saracen in Ottone's story is a symbol for a "dead Barakah" (and I said that because you won't find a SERPENT in Saracenic "heraldry" especially not on a shield!) just like the one Gurdjieff was blessed with. That means a personal power to accomplish spiritual doings that can NOT be transferred to disciples (and so is DEAD).
You can read about such things in Sufic comments on the worthlessness of G's 4th WAY.
The TOOL he received instead is alive and well and was in the Biscione's entrails but could not be elevated to LIFE - until the teachers came to Filippo's court.
When the teachers finally came they corrected and completed Filippo's dilettantism and the fruit is the subject of this topic. So whatever other versions exist - THIS - the PMB - is the hallmark of Tarot.
Funny though that you should mention the "Cary-Yale" because just today I wrote an e-mail concerning that matter to an acquaintance from which I will quote here to clear some of my POVs:
>> (...) You spoke about about the horrific 5 x 14 structure in more detail- and yes I know that this is Huck's favorite model too.
It has some disqualifying flaws though:
You mention the d'Este family (1557!) - 100 and more years after Filippo is assumed to have his "cards" made.
The “Visconti di Modrone” is assumed to be commissioned by Filippo Maria Visconti – Duke of Milan – between 1441 and 1447.
The so-called "virtues" there are an educated mis-reading of a former interpretation Filippo made when he was working with alchemy and geomancy on his own and alone before he got the teachers assigned.
http://www.darktarot.com/the_oldest_tarot_deck.php
The WORLD - that would be 1 of your assumed later added "replacement cards" - is in existence there too - before the 22 got (in your opinion) completed.
When you look at the "pedestal" of the "Emperor" and the "Empress" you will find a similar 1 beneath the feet of the mis-read "FAITH" what makes her another version of The POPESS - just like the later 1 on the PMB "cards". Why that should make her 1 of the IIII guardians you can see on TH:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1044&start=70
Another mis-reading is the "CHARITY". If you would know about the source of the 16 gods who are the ancient 16 geomantic figures (quite well known to Filippo and other alchemists) as I pointed out in the thread on TH several times you would know that the later "TEMPERANCE" with her 2 vessels is about SOBRIETY in every meaning of the word and depicts a virgin and so the sign PUELLA. If you had gone to the sources I linked you would know that already.
Filippo had just dreamed her to mature (what is not possible because HER being a SYMBOL) and have conceived a child who she is now nourishing in her lap with her milk.
The symbol for SOBRIETY is still there in her right hand as the emptied bottle - just like the emptied WINE CARAFE in the same right hand of the virgin. You may know that through Renaissance it was the custom to spice wine with all sorts of things and so the WINE CARAFE had like a modern TEA pot an inbuilt "strainer" at the bottom of the "lip" to hold the spices back. The WATER instead could be served in an open jar - like the one the virgin carries in her left hand - her symbol for SOBRIETY.
"HOPE" is another "learned" mis-reading. Of the later STAR. She looks in the same direction and the LIGHT appears at the same place. She PRAYS for a CHILD. And the "STAR" has already conceived one - judging from her caring posture that is quite typical for "bearing" women.
So you see: the later assumed additions were already present in 1442. (...) <<
And it's not about "caliper" alone. When you look at the "Cary-Yale" it is quite obvious that those "cards" would not survive 1 game at a table where they had to be SHUFFLED and PUSHED around.
For me I do not need such confirmations from other curators. This exercise was only meant as an example that even the most fundamental assumptions about Tarot must be questioned when you want to get a grip on that matter.
It would be nice though still when someone would provide such data - that should motivate others to look for themselves too.
Have a plentiful time
Adrian
Re: The Visconti-Sforza Tarot in 3-D
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Last edited by Adrian Goldwetter on 01 Feb 2016, 12:15, edited 3 times in total.