Re: The World

#111
Could an argument be made for the central figure on Tarot de Marseille-ish World cards have been the Roman Goddess Securitas?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seste ... -s2771.jpg
Apparently the drapery of fine linen over apparent nakedness is something to do with 'the sensuality of securitas'
~Lorredan
Edited to add paragraph from dictionary of coinage.
Securitas. -- Security, as a goddess worshipped
by the Romans, is delineated in a great variety
of ways on their imperial coins. She appears
for the most part under the form of a woman in
matronly costume; though in some few instances
she is but half clothed, having a veil thrown
over the lower extremities. Sometimes she is
quietly seated, as if perfectly at her ease and
having nothing to fear. That is to say, her right
or her left elbow rests on her chair, and the
hand supports her head, as in Nero. Or else
one of her arms is placed above the head; an
attitude which ancient artists regarded as characteristic of repose. She holds in one or other of
her hands either a sceptre, or a scipio, or the
hasta pura, or a cornucopia, or a patera, or a
globe. On some medals there is near her a
lighted altar; on others she stands leaning
against, or with her arm upon, a column or
cippus, having sometimes the legs crossed in a
tranquil, easy posture, carrying one of the above-
mentioned symbols, or otherwise holding before
her a branch or a crown of olive, or a palm
branch. The meaning of these various attitudes
and attributes is on the whole too evident to
require explanation. There are medals of nearly
all the emperors (with flagrant inappropriateness
to most of the reigns) from Otho and Vitellius to
Constans and Constantius jun., which have for the
type of their reverses this figure of Security, and
present for their legend the word SECVRITAS,
with the addition of the words, AVGVSTI, or
AVGVSTORVM (security of the emperor or of the
emperors); ORBIS (security of the world) ;
PVBLICA (public security) ; PERPETVA (perpetual
security) ; POPVLI ROMANI (security of the
Roman people) TEMPORVM (of the Times) ;
IMPERII (of the empire) SAECVLI (of the age) ;
REPVBLICAE (of the republic), etc.
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: The World

#112
I have been looking at the Cary-Yale card we call the World under a strong magnifier.
It has been called Fame/Fama but I was curious as that Goddess was know for rumour and gossip.
The item that has been called a Horn or trumpet appears to be an unlit torch which is the symbol of Enlightenment and Hope (spes). (Think of the Statue of Liberty- even though the flame is lit) In the other hand is a crown (Of Wisdom??)
On coins Spes carries a palm or flowers- but the unlit torch is really her symbol.
I was trying to find the Goddess of Enlightenment- but it seems to be connected with Wisdom.
Does this make any difference as a last card?
~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: The World

#113
Lorredan wrote:I have been looking at the Cary-Yale card we call the World under a strong magnifier.
It has been called Fame/Fama but I was curious as that Goddess was know for rumour and gossip.
The item that has been called a Horn or trumpet appears to be an unlit torch which is the symbol of Enlightenment and Hope (spes). (Think of the Statue of Liberty- even though the flame is lit) In the other hand is a crown (Of Wisdom??)
On coins Spes carries a palm or flowers- but the unlit torch is really her symbol.
I was trying to find the Goddess of Enlightenment- but it seems to be connected with Wisdom.
Does this make any difference as a last card?
~Lorredan
A trumpet with wings is a traditional symbol of Fame.

Image

http://emblems.let.uu.nl/av1615033.html

I think the wings are good recognizable.


Fama has wings and trumpets in Minchiate

Image
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The World

#114
If you have any way of looking at the top of the so called trumpet- you might change your mind Huck.
I have one of the photo reproduction cards. Maybe you have the skills to enlarge that portion of the card- I do not.
I was prepared for it to be a trumpet, but it is different to the trumpet on the Judgement card in shape.
~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: The World

#115
Lorredan wrote:If you have any way of looking at the top of the so called trumpet- you might change your mind Huck.
I have one of the photo reproduction cards. Maybe you have the skills to enlarge that portion of the card- I do not.
I was prepared for it to be a trumpet, but it is different to the trumpet on the Judgement card in shape.
~Lorredan
The picture has the size of the playing card, more or less. I see a winged trumpet.
Spes is already between the Cary-Yale cards, presented by an ordinary anchor, the common symbol of Hope.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The World

#116
I have just had a reply from friend who is more able to answer this question than me.
I asked Is this a depiction of Fame or Hope?
The answer I received is this.....
In my humble opinion it is neither. It is most likely a depiction of Pietas in the Ciceronian view. That is offering earthly Kingship/Fame up for duty to ones God, country and family.....
Now I understand Michaelangelo's Pieta.
~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: The World

#117
Is fame being used as celebrity or as the judgment of posterity? "Judge no man happy until he is dead" refers to classical moral systems like stoicism having the "happiness" of ones biographical life, viewed as an objective entity, as its object, rather than ones own subjective feelings of happiness. This may also be the happiness intended in the various constitutional phrasings like "Pursuit of Happiness" or "Freie Personlichkeits Entfaltung."

it seems to me if "fame" is understood as the judgment of posterity for a validly lived life, the distinctions between the variations of the world card becomes less sharp. Fame in the celebrity sense, as we understand it, would be the province of the fortune card; whereas fame understood in the classic, objective sense transcends fortune and seems far more appropriate to one of the final cards.

Finally, in the classical scheme of things, being judged worthy by posterity (XX) after ones death is immortality (XXI). However, this construction runs aground because the judgment card seems to be so obstinately Christian in all its variants.

Re: The World

#118
Jim Schulman wrote:Is fame being used as celebrity or as the judgment of posterity? "Judge no man happy until he is dead" refers to classical moral systems like stoicism having the "happiness" of ones biographical life, viewed as an objective entity, as its object, rather than ones own subjective feelings of happiness. This may also be the happiness intended in the various constitutional phrasings like "Pursuit of Happiness" or "Freie Personlichkeits Entfaltung."

it seems to me if "fame" is understood as the judgment of posterity for a validly lived life, the distinctions between the variations of the world card becomes less sharp. Fame in the celebrity sense, as we understand it, would be the province of the fortune card; whereas fame understood in the classic, objective sense transcends fortune and seems far more appropriate to one of the final cards.

Finally, in the classical scheme of things, being judged worthy by posterity (XX) after ones death is immortality (XXI). However, this construction runs aground because the judgment card seems to be so obstinately Christian in all its variants.
Fame appears ...

1. In Petrarca's Trionfi row: Love - Chastitity - Death - FAME - Time - Eternity (1355-1374)

2. In a text of Chaucer: there it is connected to the winds of Eolus, therefore the trumpet (1380s ?).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_House_of_Fame
Chaucer had some contact to Milan, where he likely was in 1368, possibly meeting Petrarca.

3. In an important theater play of Leon Battista Alberti, "Philodoxus" (1424). Fame is there as Phemia the sister of Doxia, "Glory", and Doxia is loved by the "good Hero" Philodoxus. Doxia is also desired by the "bad Hero" Fortunius(adopted son of Tychia = Fortuna), he tries to kidnap her, but he gets only Phemia. Chronus (Time ) appears and attempts to rule the case. Philodoxus gets Doxia, Fortunius gets Phemia, and Phroneus, friend of Philodoxus, gets his old wife Mnimia (= Memory) back. Mnimia cares for Alethia (Truth), daughter of Chronos, who gets nobody and nobody gets her. So maybe Alethia might have been the "true Fortune" of Fortunio, but he gets only Phemia.
http://parnaseo.uv.es/celestinesca/Nume ... umento.pdf

I think (inside the Chess Tarot theory), that Alberti's "3 pairs of men and women" in the Philodoxus influenced the love presentation in the Charles VI.

Image


I think, that the Charles VI was made for the young Lorenzo de Medici at his 14th birthday ...
In this period the elder Alberti had contact to the Medici and wrote an educative text for the young Lorenzo. The contact repeated later, when the meanwhile grown-up Lorenzo visited Alberti in Rome short before the death of Alberti.
The Philodoxus theater play became rather popular. Actually it was produced at the begin of Alberti's great career - when he naturally was still young, and so it was naturally a good talking object between elder Alberti and very young Lorenzo. The 3-lovers-scene appears only in the Charles VI, not in other Tarocchi.

4. In the Michelino deck (before 1425) we have at the end of the trump row following the 12 Olympian gods (1-12) the "13th god" Hercules (13), Eolus (14), Daphne (15) and Amor (16). Amor appears in the 6-elements-Petrarca-Trionfi-row as "Love" (1), Daphne appears as "Chastity" (2), Eolus seem to indicate "Fame" (4), Hercules - as the center of the astrological wheel with 12 Olympian gods) - might present "Time" (5). The 12 gods might present Eternity (6). Missing is "Death", possibly cause "Gods don't die", but Hercules is the "13th god" and possibly identified as "Death" (cause he's a human and has to die), but also "Father Time", as he reaches the Olymp.

The production of the Michelino deck very likely was after Michelino's return to Milan (1418). In this year the new elected pope Martin returned from the council of Constance and went first directly to Filippo Maria Visconti in Milan. The new pope was (naturally) accompanied with much other persons, between them Poggio, who just had detected in a German cloister the manuscript the text of the "Manilius poem" (from c. 18 AD), an astronomical poem, which used the "12 Olympian gods". In the manuscript the gods were related to months and zodiac signs. It later became of importance for the decoration of the Palazza Schifanoia in Ferrara (and was very early printed 1472/73 printed in Ferrara and in Nuremberg by Regiomontanus).

http://cura.free.fr/decem/10kengil.html
Month January. 31 days. Nones on 5th. Day 9 hours, night 14 hours. Sun in Capricorn. Patronage of Juno.
Month February. 28 days. Nones on 5th. Day 10 hours, night 13 hours. Sun in Aquarius. Patronage of Neptune. Fields are sown.
Month March. 31 days. Nones on 7th. Day 12 hours, night 12 hours. Equinox March 24th. Sun in Pisces. Patronage of Minerva.
Month April. 30 days. Nones on 5th. Day 13 hours, night 10 hours. Sun in Aries. Patronage of Venus.
Month May. 31 days. Nones on 7th. Day 14 hours, night 9 hours. sun in Taurus. Patronage of Apollo. Fields are weeded. Sheep are shorn. Wool is washed. Bullocks are tamed.
Month June. 30 days. Nones on 5th. Day 15 hours, night 9 hours. Summer solstice June 23. Sun in Gemini. Patronage of Mercury.
Month July (so named). 31 days. Nones on 7th. Day hours 14, night hours 9. Sun in Cancer. Patronage of Jupiter.
Month August (so named). 31 days. Nones on 5th. Day of 13 hours, night of 11 hours. Sun in Leo. Patronage of Ceres.
Month September. 30 days. Nones on 5th. Day 12 hours, night 12 hours. Equinox September 23. Sun in Virgo. Patronage of Vulcan. Storage jars are coated with pitch.
Month October. 31 days. Nones on 7th. Day 10 hours, night 13 hours. Sun in Libra. Patronage of Mars. Grape harvest.
Month November. 30 days. Nones on 5th. Day 9 hours, night 14 hours. Sun in Scorpio. Patronage of Diana. Sowing of wheat and barley.
Month December. 31 days. Nones on 5th. Day 9 hours, night 15 hours. Sun in Sagittarius. Patronage of Vesta. Beginning of winter. They dung the vineyards, sowing beans, etc.
In the Michelino deck the 12 Olympic gods ware not the same as the 12 Olympic gods used in the Michelino deck (it replaced Vulcan with Bacchus) and it seems, that the Manilius order wasn't used. Nonetheless it might be assumed, that the finding of the Manilius text influenced the production of the Michelino deck.

5. In the Cary-Yale as already shown, recognizable by "winged trumpet" ... possibly 1441.

6. In the Cassone motifs of Florence, starting in the 1440s and in other art connected to Petrarca's Trionfi poem. Here by "Lo Scheggia", for a birth picture of Lorenzo de Medici (1449). Lo Scheggia was also playing card painter (at least in 1447-1449). Young Lorenzo so was immediately programmed to see something in "Fame". Alberti in his much earlier theater play offered some critical words to Fame (as Phemia) ... stuff to talk about.



7. In the picture one has to observe the octagonal halo. The octagonal halo is in Florentine iconography used for virtues. It might be, that Fame was identified with Prudenia, the "missing virtue" in Tarot. In the Charles VI deck we've 4 figures with octagonal halo, Justice, Temperance, Strength (3 cardinal virtues) and World (very similar to Fame presentations, but possibly just the hidden 4th cardinal virtue Prudentia).

Image


8. Fame appears than in the Minchiate, which was the typical Florentine deck, but also used elsewhere (for instance as far as Sicily and Genova). It has the inscription "FAMA VOLAT" ... Fame flies.

Image


9. Fame appears in the Vievil Tarot (and later in the Belgian Tarot) in a "Sol Fama" or Fama Sol" inscription on that, what is usually taken as "Temperance".

Image

SOL FAMA

Image

FAMA SOL

10. The" Fama Sol" appears already at a Tarot list of Alciato in the 1540s. We discussed the case (somehow unfinished) ...
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=747&hilit=fama+sol

**************

... well, "Freie Persönlichkeitsentfaltung" is a nice interpretation, but not the usual 15th century slang. ... :-)
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The World

#119
If the Petrarchan scheme holds, the world card has to be eternity, regardless of any iconographic foibles in indivudal world card versions.

The Fame portion of the poem lists famous classical personages, the final part being philosophers, and ending with Xeno. Cleanthes and Chrysippus, the founders of the Stoic school, and of the ethics that permeates the poem. Given that these were never celebrities, fame is treated objectively, as belonging to the people to whom humanity owes the greatest debt. The triumph of time is called by him the "second death,' and described as the decay of memory, the extinction of humanity, and finally of all things, including fame. In other words, the triumph of time is the death of the universe, rather than individual death. The triumph of eternity ends (in this rather ponderous tranlation) with
[b]Petrarch[/b], in [i]Triumph of Eternity[/i] wrote: There, at the resurrection of the just,
When the last trumpet with earth-shaking sound
Shall wake her sleepers from their couch profound;
Then, when that spotless and immortal mind
In a material mould once more enshrined,
With wonted charms shall wake seraphic love,
How will the beatific sight improve
Her heavenly beauties in the climes above!
The female figure embodying eternity could well be laura, Petrach's muse, mourned in the Triumph of death section, now risen in glory, similar to Dante's vision of Beatrice as the embodiemnt of heaven. The eternity part of the poem is essentially a leap of faith out of the rest of the poem's classical framework
These pageants five the world and I beheld,
The sixth and last, I hope, in heaven reveal'd
(If Heaven so will), when Time with speedy hand
The scene despoils, and Death's funereal wand
The triumph leads. But soon they both shall fall
Under that mighty hand that governs all,
While they who toil for true renown below,
Whom envious Time and Death, a mightier foe,
Relentless plunged in dark oblivion's womb,
When virtue seem'd to seek the silent tomb,
Spoil'd of her heavenly charms once more shall rise,
Regain their beauty, and assert the skies;
And into the hope that all that the good lost to death and time is to be restored.

Re: The World

#120
Would the World=Fame and Judgement=Eternity work for you?

For me, the challenge with Petrarch and tarot is Chastity; as Love and Death are clear, and Time works well with the Hermit.
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron