Re: The Sun

#61
Hello Huck,
I have no doubt that Steve's interpretation of the child as Christ (alluding to his incarnation and resurrection) is correct. The other characters are also easily recognized as the seven planets and an angel. The element that puzzles me is the brick wall. Moreover, I am not sure of the overall meaning of the allegory. I think it represents how the structure of the creation is centered on God (as many other illustrations of the time) but still it is a rather peculiar image. I find it very interesting.

Re: The Sun

#64
Huck wrote:It seemed relative clear, that it was an astrological context (title of the book). And I can't imagine, that German book painters painted Christ in this way, as a boy on a wooden horse.
Imitatio christi....its simply a generic Christian soul (if Christ it would have a halo). A pilgrim amongst the stars....

You can view all of the images in that work in the Warburg link that Steve provided:
http://warburg.sas.ac.uk/vpc/VPC_search ... =2&msn=128

The image series that immediately precedes the plenary image of the planets is this: Lunar mansions → Cycles → Paris, Bibliothèque nationale, Allem. 106; the 28th and last mansion showing a Christian supplicating Mary and the Christ-child with a star above them (each mansion apparently getting star - if the text on the scrolls is Arabic then it is likely from the Picatrix [confirmed via link below - Arabic name for house 28 is Al BatnalHut - the German text just looks like a corruption of that, with "H" for "B"]); again the subsequent image is the soul as Christ-child amongst the planets, preceded by this 28th lunar mansion.
28th lunar mansion.jpg
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A previous lunar mansion, #20, shows a Christian pilgrim/soul, with cross on head like the angel, in a boat while fighting a devil for control of the steering oar - which is what the image in question must also show, except the struggle is the entire planetary arena (the astral influences of the planets similarily can "blow" the Christian off course from his path of salvation).
Lunar manion 20.jpg
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A fairly good webpage on the Picatrix and the Lunar Mansions: http://www.astrologer.com/aanet/pub/jou ... atrix.html

Phaeded

Re: The Sun

#65
Phaeded wrote: You can view all of the images in that work in the Warburg link that Steve provided:
http://warburg.sas.ac.uk/vpc/VPC_search ... =2&msn=128
Thanks for this link (nice pictures), but I'm confused, cause I don't know where Steve gave this link. Marco gave a link. But nice, that this selection was found.
The image series that immediately precedes the plenary image of the planets is this: Lunar mansions → Cycles → Paris, Bibliothèque nationale, Allem. 106; the 28th and last mansion showing a Christian supplicating Mary and the Christ-child with a star above them (each mansion apparently getting star - if the text on the scrolls is Arabic then it is likely from the Picatrix [confirmed via link below - Arabic name for house 28 is Al BatnalHut - the German text just looks like a corruption of that, with "H" for "B"]); again the subsequent image is the soul as Christ-child amongst the planets, preceded by this 28th lunar mansion.
28th lunar mansion.jpg
A previous lunar mansion, #20, shows a Christian pilgrim/soul, with cross on head like the angel, in a boat while fighting a devil for control of the steering oar - which is what the image in question must also show, except the struggle is the entire planetary arena (the astral influences of the planets similarily can "blow" the Christian off course from his path of salvation).
Lunar manion 20.jpg
At this selection ...
http://warburg.sas.ac.uk/vpc/VPC_search ... cat_5=1146
... it looks a little bit, as if the "boy with horse" picture doesn't belong to the Lunar cycle, but possibly to another following article.
A fairly good webpage on the Picatrix and the Lunar Mansions: http://www.astrologer.com/aanet/pub/jou ... atrix.html
I saw one name, which matches the Picatrix house names (as given in the article), some others not. But maybe this doesn't say so much.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The Sun

#67
Huck wrote
...it looks a little bit, as if the "boy with horse" picture doesn't belong to the Lunar cycle, but possibly to another following article.
The next section is labeled as "decans" in the Warburg webpage, but it looks like zodiacal signs (shown in literal temples/houses) and the planets they are associated with (shown as sigils above the houses).

At all events, both the lunar mansions and decans or zodiacal signs are cycles; the circular arena into which the soul enters on "horseback" (the toy horse - perhaps pointing towards Plato's Phaedrus myth) is simply the planetary cycle - something that can be shown concentrically, but there is also a strong astrological graphic tradition of showing them linearally along the circumference of a circle.

Here is a link to Warburg's database showing the planets: http://warburg.sas.ac.uk/vpc/VPC_search ... &cat_6=578

This one being a very close cognate of the image in quesiton - a Christian salvation icon (the Church as Sol *[see below] holding a Soul?) drawn by horse into the remainder of the planetary circle (from Oxford, Bodleian Library → Bodley 266, fol. 49r, Scot, Michael → Liber Introductorius, Italian 15th C.): Phaeded

* Church as Sol: In a letter to the nobles of Tuscany ten months into his pontificate, Innocent III embellished one of the favorite, novel images he had found (despised and refuted by Dante in his Monarchia), that of the sun and the moon, as analogies of pontifical authority and royal power: "Now just as the moon derives its light from the sun and is indeed lower than it in quantity and quality in position and power, so too the royal power derives the splendor of its dignity from the pontifical authority." In 1201, in his letter Solitæ benignitas, he reminded Alexius III, the usurping emperor of Constantinople, that just as the soul excelled the body, so the pope's binding and loosing of souls transcended the empire's earthly jurisdiction, excepting nothing "whatsoever." The image I attached above shows a soul being 'loosened', courtesy the Church as Sol.

Re: The Sun

#68
Nice ... I've opened today a "Collection" thread for such material, see ..
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1040&p=15559#p15559

I've already placed the recent links there.
This one being a very close cognate of the image in quesiton - a Christian salvation icon (the Church as Sol *[see below] holding a Soul?) drawn by horse into the remainder of the planetary circle (from Oxford, Bodleian Library → Bodley 266, fol. 49r, Scot, Michael → Liber Introductorius, Italian 15th C.):
Planetary cycle, Oxford, Bodleian Library -Bodley 266, fol. 49r.jpg
Phaeded
Well, I see Sol (= Helios) with Phaethon, his son (name is given in the picture), visiting the row of the planets. Michael Scot worked for emperor Fredrick II, and this one hadn't it so much with "church holding a soul", actually often in war with the pope, though this should have been mostly after Michael Scot's death.

In the row of the planets is "Terra", just as a circle, curiously so, as if the designer hadn't a geocentric view on the world.

Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: The Sun

#69
Huck wrote:
Well, I see Sol (= Helios) with Phaethon, his son (name is given in the picture), visiting the row of the planets. Michael Scot worked for emperor Fredrick II, and this one hadn't it so much with "church holding a soul", actually often in war with the pope, though this should have been mostly after Michael Scot's death.
Phaethon rode his father's chariot solo - that was in fact the problem (he could not control the horses by himself). Any chance you can make out the additional text? That image then would seem to be a post-mortem allegory for the Christian soul (Phaethon's apotheosis - something not in his pagan myths); Sol is frequently equated with Jesus but I call this version of Phaethon a Christian allegory becasue there is a cross on top of Sol:
Cross-topped Sol.jpg
Cross-topped Sol.jpg (17.81 KiB) Viewed 4554 times
Here's a quattrocento cycle of the Phaethon myth now in the Sforza Castle museum in Milan (my photo); Sol is not visible in the photo, off to the right in a "solar nimbus" watching his son's fall from the chariot in Scorpius:
Italy, April 2010 456.JPG
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Italy, April 2010 453.JPG
Phaethon meets his father
(456.19 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Sol as Pope in the Eremitani church in Padua (my [crappy] photo again; have a better one somewhere), c. 1360. Apparently the Augustinian brothers who commissioned this planetary cycle ignored Dante's complaint about the Pope's claims for the Church as metaphorically being the sun. Sol is surrounded by radiate flames just like on the Warburg manuscript:
Italy, April 2010 594.JPG
Venus and Sol, Eremitani, Padua
(2.63 MiB) Not downloaded yet
Phaeded

Re: The Sun

#70
Phaeded wrote: Phaethon rode his father's chariot solo - that was in fact the problem (he could not control the horses by himself).
I wouldn't see this as troubleome, why shouldn't the father Helios take his son Phaethon on a ride, at least in the phantasy of a painter with some commission.
If you're right, that one pope took the attempt to style himself as Sol, and this situation belonged to the period of Fredrick II, the papal idea might have been, that the young emperor [ =Phaethon = Fredrick] was educated to have the reign in the hands of the elder and more experienced pope, which would avoid a later fall.
Any chance you can make out the additional text?
It's Latin, I'm not a specialist for Latin and I'm mostly not good in reading old handwritten text.
That image then would seem to be a post-mortem allegory for the Christian soul; Sol is frequently equated with Jesus but I say this pagan version with Phaethon is used allegorically becasue there is a cross on top of Sol:
Yes, I saw the cross
Here's a quattrocento cycle of the Phaethon myth now in the Sforza Castle museum in Milan (my photo); Sol is n ot visible off to the right in a "solar nimbus" watching his son's fall from the chariot in Scorpius:
Italy, April 2010 456.JPG
Sol as Pope in the Eremitani church in Padua (my [crappy] photo again; have a better one somewhere), c. 1360. Apparently the Augustinian brothers who commissioned this planetary cycle ignored Dante's complaint about the Pope's claims for the Church as metaphorically being the sun. Sol is surrounded by radiate flames just like on the Warburg manuscript:
Italy, April 2010 594.JPG
Nice pictures, especially the second. "Death in Scorpio" shouldn't be a surprize, perhaps an association to the Mithras cult.
From which pope spoke Dante?
Huck
http://trionfi.com

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