Re: Temperance

#22
Hello people - As an aside to this thread, I have a burning question -

@ Pen and Huck - It seems the 2 of you have had a chance to compare the Wither and the Rollenhagen emblem books (beginning here - viewtopic.php?f=23&t=397#p9209).
I have read that Wither lifted the plates from Rollenhagen, but never read that he bothered to translate the text. It seems from remarks by the both of you that he did translate the text. I can't read any other language than English. Have either of you found that Wither actually did translate the whole of the Rollenhagen book into English?

IWither was apparently a writer with a strong satyrical streak, who famously spent time in jail for it (according to a bio at Wikipedia). Because of this, and the remarks John Manning makes about him in 'The Emblem',regarding the length and quality of the text that Wither supplied for the emblems, I have had to regard the Wither book as a possibly unreliable representative of the traditional Emblem genre. After all, he could have been making fun of Emblem books as well. While this might be entertaining, it would place his Emblem book somewhat on the peripherary of the genre. But if he actually translated the original text of Rollenhagen, his book, as one of the relatively few available in English, carries greater weight with me in this regard. I think that if Wither included the text of Rollenhagen in his book, this also would make Wither's text more valuable to the study of Tarot iconography (to the degree that emblematic traditions exist, and relate to Tarot iconography).
Deliver me from reasons why you'd rather cry - I'd rather fly...
Jim Morrison - The Crystal Ship

Re: Temperance

#23
I can only say, what I already said ...
Emblemata : Volsinnighe uytbeelses / by Gabrielem Rollenhagium uyt andere versamelt/ en vermeerdert met syn eygene sinrijcke vindingen/ Gestelt in Nederduytsche Rijme Door Zacharis Heyns.
Verfasser: Rollenhagen, Gabriel *1583-1619* ; Passe, Crispijn van de (der Ältere) *1564-1637*

http://diglib.hab.de/wdb.php?dir=drucke/21-2-eth-1
http://diglib.hab.de/wdb.php?dir=drucke/21-2-eth-2
The text is given at the end of the book (in contrast to the English edition) ... perhaps you didn't note it. "Nederduytsche Rijme" ... likely this seems a sort of Dutch, possibly mixed with some "more German influences".

This naturally is a little bit difficult. It's possible, that's the text took some German/Dutch fun, too ... :-) ... and possibly the English edition added something, so I would assume without regarding the text. So perhaps you can compare the length.
A content comparison is difficult, as you see, when you look at the text. And from my German mind I understand a few things, when I read a Dutch text, but generally Dutch sounds funny from the German perspective generally. Ask a Dutch, if you want a more precise answer. But possibly this one will have problems, too.

If it helps:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Rollenhagen
called a "Satiriker", which possibly explains something to your question.

Generally emblem books likely took influence from Tarot and other early iconographic developments, but didn't
influence them. Humanism had fun to develop new allegories.

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... according this biography
http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/ADB:Rollenhagen,_Georg
I can't see any relation of the author to Dutch countries.

However, the title ...
"Emblemata : Volsinnighe uytbeelses / by Gabrielem Rollenhagium uyt andere versamelt/ en vermeerdert met syn eygene sinrijcke vindingen/ Gestelt in Nederduytsche Rijme Door Zacharis Heyns.
Verfasser: Rollenhagen, Gabriel *1583-1619* ; Passe, Crispijn van de (der Ältere) *1564-1637*"
... gives the impression, that it is a Dutch edition, likely translated by Zacharis Heyns (but actually this seems to be publisher), if I interpret this correctly.

The description of the library says
"Niederländisch-lateinische Ausgabe. - Enth. neben der niederländ. Übers. die unveränderten Embleme u. Verse der Erstausg. von 1611, lediglich Kupfert. mit veränderter Inschrift neu gestochen "
http://dbs.hab.de/katalog/entrysearch.p ... eaa1032038

Which says, that this edition (1615) follows an edition of 1611 with minor changes and that it is a Dutch-Latin edition.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Temperance

#24
As far as I can tell without translating fully, the sense of the Latin lines below the Gabriel Rollenhagius 1617 emblem do match the sense of Withers' English verse.

Augustum quic quid superes t, vas respuit, ergo
Infundas ne quid forte caveto nimis

Basically it's saying that excess will spew out of the vessel, therefore take care not to pour in/pour out too much.

And Withers: Since overmuch will over-fill
Pour out enough; but do not spill.


Here is the Dutch/German influenced?) verse Huck mentioned - it's difficult to read the text, but if it's a translation (from Latin?) for Dutch readers, it may not be significant.

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Pen
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...

Re: Temperance

#25
Hi - So, Huck and Pen, if I read your magnificent responses correctly, Wither did not merely use the illos and supply his own accompanying text, but actually translated Rollenhagen ( and then apparently added his own material, since each emblem gets so much more volume of text than in the Rollenhagen)

Thanx for the hearty response people !

[i]Huck - You got the wrong Rollenhagen in your de.wikipedia link (its Gabriel- 1583-1619, not Georg - 1542-1609)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Rollenhagen[/i]


RE the editions of Rollenhagen - I would like to add more links - Here is 2 links to what appears to be the complete and intact original editions of the 2 volumes.
The first volume appeared in 1611 in Cologne
http://www.archive.org/details/nucleusemblematu00roll
The second volume of 100 emblems appeared in 1613 in Utrecht
http://www.archive.org/details/gabrielisrollenh00roll
Crispijn van de Passe the Elder, or de Passe (c.1564, Arnemuiden - buried 6 March 1637, Utrecht was a Dutch publisher and engraver and founder of a dynasty of engravers….…He started his own engraving and publishing business in Cologne in 1589, but ... was forced to leave in 1611. He set up in business in Utrecht, by about 1612, where he created engravings for the English and other markets, and where he died ...
from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_de_Passe_family
The Herzog August Bibliotek copies of the 2 volumes appear to be original editions, but missing the French translations, and to have Dutch translations appended at the end, bound into it from what I believe must have originally been completely seperate books- Note the change in color from the actual emblem book, and the appended Dutch translations of the first volume, and especially the extensive foxing of these appended pages in the second volume (drucke_21-2-eth-2), of the HAB set.
- Another set of the 2 volumes has the 1611 in an even sorrier state. While containing the front material, it seems to be missing it's French emblem translations altogether. A leaf from the front material is also half torn off.
http://www.archive.org/details/gabrielisrollenh00rol
The 1613 volume appears to be intact with all the front matter and French emblem translations before the emblem book proper.
http://www.archive.org/details/gabrielisrollenh00rol

I therefore feel that the set first linked to near the top of this post is the most complete and intact of the 3 two volume digital copies that I have found.

RE the languages - It appears that the original text for each emblem is in Latin under each illo. Each emblem gets only 2 lines of text. The front material is also in Latin, but there is a French translation of the text of the emblems placed at the front of the books (where present), comprising 4 lines for each emblem.
So then, The original Rollenhagen emblems have text in latin that is only 2 lines each. Wither as you can see from the page facsimile uploaded by Pen viewtopic.php?f=23&t=397#p9209, has much more material added by Wither ( as Manning somewhat wryly opines in 'The Emblem':)

Anyway, I want to thank you all for the in depth response and investigation into my question. Especially since it has little to do, specifically, with Tarot history. and especially little to do with the Temperance card
Image
Deliver me from reasons why you'd rather cry - I'd rather fly...
Jim Morrison - The Crystal Ship

Re: Temperance

#26
Huck - You got the wrong Rollenhagen in your de.wikipedia link (its Gabriel- 1583-1619, not Georg - 1542-1609)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Rollenhagen
Yes, I see, you're right. The author, Gabriel, is the son of the other, Georg. The father was the bigger man.

Well, considering the life dates ... 1609 death year of Georg, 1611 and 1613 the production of the 2 Emblem books, it might be possible, that the son used material found at his dead father's desk. Anyway, the father was the teacher of his son and also others.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Temperance

#27
Temperance with Hour Glass or Clock

This motif appeared recently in the Hermit thread ...
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=392&start=10
Cohen notes a 100 years earlier Temperance with hour glass, which should be this one ...
Image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ambro ... erance.jpg
... by Ambrogio Lorenzetti.
Compare: http://www.shafe.co.uk/art/Ambrogio_Lor ... -_Nove.asp
and: http://www.shafe.co.uk/crystal/images/l ... 1338-9.jpg

Later, as Cohen notes, the hour glass is given to Father Time (with the idea of a finishing death), and the mechanical clock (with th idea of steadiness) becomes a symbol of Temperance.
In matters of the Tarot sequence in the Western order we have, that 14 Temperance follows 13 Death and the Hermit is "before Death) ... maybe the idea, that the steadiness of time overcomes "individual death".
So I started to look up some Temperances with clock:

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Image

with commentary:
Temperance (Temperantia); an allegorical figure with the attributes of temperance stands in the centre foreground (clock on her head, bit in her mouth, eyeglasses in her hand, and the blade of a windmill below her foot); around her are representatives of the Seven Liberal Arts, over whom she governs. 1560
http://lj.rossia.org/users/marinni/3767 ... ad=5198217

GREAT PICTURE: http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/a ... erance.jpg

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Private picture:
http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=de ... 2,s:0,i:78

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The Italian idea of representing Temperance with a timepiece was perhaps brought to Northern Europe by one of the Italian artists active in France and Burgundy at the turn of the 15th century. On the other hand, it may have been introduced by the father of the Venetian-born Christine de Pisan. About 1400, at the French court, the latter wrote L'épître d'Othéa, a treatise supposedly sent by the Trojan goddess Othea to a young prince for the formation of his character. Christine tells us that Othea represents the wisdom of woman and remarks in a note explaining the pictures that Temperance should be called a goddess likewise. And because our human body is made up of many parts and should be regulated by reason, it may be represented as a clock in which there are several wheels and measures. And just as the clock is worth nothing unless it is regulated, so our human body does not work unless Temperance orders it. Our two earliest manuscripts of Othéa, both produced shortly after 1400 at the court and presumably with Christine's advice by a Northern artist with Italian proclivities were embellished with pictures of Temperance adjusting a large mechanical clock. Such clocks became standard in illustrated Othéa manuscripts.
... with some pictures at
http://www.danielmitsui.com/hieronymus/ ... id=2263869

Image


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Image

with commentary:
Allegory of Temperance
early 1680s, Luca Giordano

Temperance, one of the four Cardinal Virtues, holds a bridle and a clock and stands beside an elephant. Sobriety holds a key and rests her foot on a dolphin. Meekness (?) receives flowers. The figures at the bottom of the composition represent Sloth, Envy and Hunger. In the sky above are Voluptuousness, Youth and Tranquillity.

This painting is one of a group of 10 modelli, or elaborated oil studies, made in preparation for the fresco projects that Giordano created for the Palazzo Medici Riccardi in Florence. This painting is connected with the ceiling of the Galleria.
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paint ... temperance

Here it's interesting, that Temperance is shown with an elephant ... a symbol of Fame. Late Temperances were shown in Tarot with "Fama sol" or "Sol Fama inscription".

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Image

with commentary:
"Wearing a matron headdress with a throat collar" Michel Colombe’s third guardian, the virtue Temperance, according to Dubuisson-Aubenay's Itinerary in Brittany, written in 1636, “...is dressed in simple clothes, a bridle with bit in one hand and in the other, the pendulum of a clock or the balance wheel of a watch..". In her left hand the statue holds a case decorated with a weight-driven clock, a customary model of the 16th century, seemingly a hieroglyph for time itself, the sole master of wisdom - and, like the hourglass, an emblem of Saturn. According to Fulcanelli however the esoteric scope of Temperance lies entirely in the bridle which she holds in her right hand. “...It is with the bridle that the horse is driven; by means of this bit, the cavalier directs his mount as he pleases. So the bridle can be considered as the essential instrument, the mediator placed between the will of the cavalier and the progress of the horse, toward the proposed objective. This means is designated in hermeticism by the name of cabala. So that the special expression of the bridle, that of restraint and of direction, allow one to identify and recognize, under a single symbolic form, Temperance and the Cabalistic Science...”
http://terraumbra13.blogspot.de/2012/01 ... bbath.html

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For the moment I don't find very much of them.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Temperance

#28
There is no real surprise that temperance would move from self control, propriety, and and staying in character (Cicero's De Officis) in the medieval and rennaissance period, to being the virtue of day-planners and busy schedules in the early modern (clock for dividing time into accurate small segments, elephant for remembering what is planned for each segment).

One of the main effects of the reformation and counter-reformation is the privatization of time (along with the privatization of most of the public festivals and consumption that ran from Roman to Renaissance times). This means being temperate now becomes showing up on time and keeping constructively busy. It is basically the opposite of Saturn's hourglass, a symbol of control rather than fatality.

Thanks for pointing out this change in iconography. I'll trot it out the next time I have to talk about the early modern shift from public to private living.

I don't know of any deck that uses a temperance in this new style; are there any?

Re: Temperance

#29
It is basically the opposite of Saturn's hourglass, a symbol of control rather than fatality.
Well I think it is more like the WOF versus Temperance.(card 9 Hermit X card 10 WOF)
I have been searching for the origin of a print in an old prayer book, that had a section on the Virtues.
I have at last found it. It is by Cornelis Metsys (Massys) said in various times from 1531- 1548. It is considered Netherlandish- an engraving.
The words in the Prayer Book says of the image...
... representing (the hourglass as symbol) the decisive time of choice, action and realization, the seizure of a moment that will not pass by again....
It goes to physically upturning or inverting the hourglass- as opposed to the WOF turning on it's own.
Choice versus no choice.(Which is really your statement of control rather than fatality :)
~Lorredan
AN00057790_001_m.jpg
AN00057790_001_m.jpg (31.85 KiB) Viewed 7813 times
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts

Re: Temperance

#30
I think, the interesting part in this observation "temperance with clock" is the question, if this specific iconographic detail influenced the Tarot position 14 = Temperance = "after 13 Death" in the Western order, which later became typical in the Tarot de Marseille.
And if it also was responsible for the "Fama Sol" phenomenon, which we observed first for Alciato and later in the Vievil and the Belgian Tarocchi.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=747

Image


In the thread we followed the Fama sol through the literature and found earlier Merlinus Coccai (Teofilo Folengo) and Boiardo and also Petrarca indirectly involved.

Further there's the observation, that we have deck situations, in which Fame looks looks like Prudentia (PMB, Charles VI) and appearances of Fame = Justice ...

Image


... inside the collection from Michael Hurst of the Petrarca Trionfi motives ..
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Petrarch%27s_triumphs

... and we have also a connection between Temperantia and Fame, as already shown.

Naturally one could be famous for every virtue. So also for Fortitudo, for instance in the case of Lucrezia and other famous women ...

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I found virtue cycle with Fama (7 virtues + Fama) ...
http://www.bildindex.de/obj08114578.html#|home
... copied in 19th century from motifs in "Abteikirche (Cappella dei Santi Fondatori), Grottaferrata" (near Rome). Interestingly cardinal Giuliano de Rovere (= Pope Julius II; otherwise "somehow" connected to Tarot) once had been responsible for Grottaferrata and the cloister in late 15th century.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grottaferrata
However, likely this part of the decoration seems to be from a later period (1608-1610 ?). The information is not clear.
http://www.museumwnf.org/baroqueart/dat ... on13;12;en

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Huck
http://trionfi.com

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