Re: The Chariot
Posted: 14 Dec 2009, 09:50
Thanks for the education, as usual, Huck and Ross. I don't want to respond exactly, but I am thinking about people who might start reading this thread without knowing the context in which Ross quoted me. It was on page 13 of "The 5x14 Theory--an Investigation," in "The Researcher's Study" (viewtopic.php?f=11&t=365&start=120#p5259). The Chariot was one of three examples I gave, the others being the Hanged Man and the Fool, of possible intercity influence, and considerations of what image is earlier (as distinct from which actual card is earlier). Huck and I had been discussing the 6 PMB cards by the second artist. He was relating specific Florentine imagery of 1465 and before to the cards, while I was bringing to bear CY and PMB imagery along with extremely generic Florentine (or Bolognese or Ferrarese) ideas. I think we ended up tentatively agreeing that the 6 cards might have been a product of dialogue between Lorenzo and Galeazzo, although he still gives more credit to Lorenzo (and probably could dispense with Galeazzo), while I give more to Galeazzo (and could probably dispense with Lorenzo).
My reflection upon the process is that what we are doing is a little like what Biblical scholars did when discussing which of the synoptic gospels came first, or even more particularly, which of various wordings of a particular "saying" of Jesus came first, and what happened and why in the various versions, including the non-canonical versions such as in the Gospel of Thomas. They developed techniques of "form criticism" and "redaction criticism" that are pretty subtle--and often not leading to consensus. Also, they assumed the gradual coelescence of separate communities--a point we might not be able to assume here, although it remains my working hypothesis.
In the case of the Chariot, I found Ross's example of the triumphator's winged helmet quite helpful. It does look like one, although I wouldn't have seen it unless Ross pointed it out. That may be due simply to deterioration. I think it is interesting that it comes from Florence. That was part of the point of my reference to the fleur-de-lys, that it points to Florence, possibly even Florence after the Medici adopted that device (although it was already a device of the city of Florence). So I would be interested in any more imperator's-winged-helmet examples you have, from other tarocchi cities. But apart from identifying the city, it looked to me as though the winged helmet was a response to the condittiere's hat rather than the other way around, in as much as the winged helmet is less typical in depictions of triumphators. Likewise, the fleur-de-lys looks like a response to the seven palle (balls), which in as much as they are all the same color are from before the Medici adopted the purple ball (at the same time as they adopted the fleur-de-lys, I think, but Huck will correct me on this). And the plume on the horse seems to me like a response to an unplumed horse--even if it turns out that there were other depictions of plumed horses in Florence or other Northern Italian cities. It seems like an addition, as it's the only early Chariot that has it. (I'm not sure what the principle is that I am using; I am just feeling my way along.) Also, I don't mean "response" in a one-upmanship way, like one designer saying, I can do better than that, but simply that one is like a revision of the other.
My reflection upon the process is that what we are doing is a little like what Biblical scholars did when discussing which of the synoptic gospels came first, or even more particularly, which of various wordings of a particular "saying" of Jesus came first, and what happened and why in the various versions, including the non-canonical versions such as in the Gospel of Thomas. They developed techniques of "form criticism" and "redaction criticism" that are pretty subtle--and often not leading to consensus. Also, they assumed the gradual coelescence of separate communities--a point we might not be able to assume here, although it remains my working hypothesis.
In the case of the Chariot, I found Ross's example of the triumphator's winged helmet quite helpful. It does look like one, although I wouldn't have seen it unless Ross pointed it out. That may be due simply to deterioration. I think it is interesting that it comes from Florence. That was part of the point of my reference to the fleur-de-lys, that it points to Florence, possibly even Florence after the Medici adopted that device (although it was already a device of the city of Florence). So I would be interested in any more imperator's-winged-helmet examples you have, from other tarocchi cities. But apart from identifying the city, it looked to me as though the winged helmet was a response to the condittiere's hat rather than the other way around, in as much as the winged helmet is less typical in depictions of triumphators. Likewise, the fleur-de-lys looks like a response to the seven palle (balls), which in as much as they are all the same color are from before the Medici adopted the purple ball (at the same time as they adopted the fleur-de-lys, I think, but Huck will correct me on this). And the plume on the horse seems to me like a response to an unplumed horse--even if it turns out that there were other depictions of plumed horses in Florence or other Northern Italian cities. It seems like an addition, as it's the only early Chariot that has it. (I'm not sure what the principle is that I am using; I am just feeling my way along.) Also, I don't mean "response" in a one-upmanship way, like one designer saying, I can do better than that, but simply that one is like a revision of the other.