The Magician

A secluded place, set aside for the exclusive use of those wishing to study the iconography of tarot cards. Each trump has its own thread, allowing exploration of each card in detail from a variety of sources and possible inspirations.

Re: The Magician

Postby Huck on 02 Dec 2011, 22:53

Image

This image at http://stepanov.lk.net/magic/milbourn/01.html is given with description ...
Joseph of Ulm included a cups and balls conjuror
in his 1404 drawing which showed the influences
of the moon. His astrological manuscript is preserved
in the Tuebingen University library in Germany.


1404 sounds "rather early" for children of planets, I would assume ... but I see, we had it already

http://www.jannesdegoochelaar.nl/media/ ... of_ulm.jpg

Ah, I see Adam McLean stating "Possibly the earliest example of this emblem form."

I find here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=e51y17 ... &q&f=false

Planetenkinder
Aus dem kalendarischen Hausbuch des Meister Joseph aus dem Kloster Güterstein bei Um, um 1475
Tübingen, Universitätsbibliok, Cod. M. d. 2

c. 1475 ... not 1404, according this statement

Planets (Mercury): [Ms Tübingen UB M d 2] German (Carthusian Monastery Güterstein, near Ulm?), ca.1475. The Children of Mercury, from an astrological manuscript. Tübingen UB Ms M.d.2, fol. 271. manuscript illumination. Includes an organ builder with positive and portative organs and a clock maker with a clock with a clapper bell. (D. Blume. Regenten des Himmels ... Berlin 200l. Taf. 40 [fine color reproduction] as ca.1475, as bound in the Carthusian Monastery of Güterstein and probably written there by an unknown Meister Joseph. Refers to it as the "Kalendarisches Hausbuch des Meister Joseph."; Hauber Planetenkinderbilder. Abb. 41, as Ulm, 1404)

http://www.unh.edu/music/Icon/ibelhs.htm
User avatar
Huck
member
 

Re: The Magician

Postby Ross G. R. Caldwell on 03 Dec 2011, 11:11

This page -
http://www.pascua.de/planetenkinder/hintergrund.htm

has all of the pictures and text from the book, and only says it is "aus dem beginnenden 15. Jahrhundert."

I can't figure it out; are those two dates referring to the same book? What accounts for the discrepancy of dates?
Image
User avatar
Ross G. R. Caldwell
Pedant
 
Location: Béziers
Favorite Deck: Bibl. nat. Estampes, Kh. 34 rés t.I
Mood: Pedantic
Aliases: belmurru

Re: The Magician

Postby Huck on 10 Dec 2011, 15:45

Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:This page -
http://www.pascua.de/planetenkinder/hintergrund.htm

has all of the pictures and text from the book, and only says it is "aus dem beginnenden 15. Jahrhundert."

I can't figure it out; are those two dates referring to the same book? What accounts for the discrepancy of dates?


... nice picture collection. But it seems he's orientated towards a scholar Hauber, who wrote 1915. Maybe modern research has made some progress. The other information with "1475" looks more solid.
User avatar
Huck
member
 

Re: The Magician

Postby debra on 01 Sep 2012, 10:09

Apropos the items on the table, see this magician, at 5:43, and especially beginning 6:06.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr0e_WsjkvY

He sticks his tongue out.
User avatar
debra
 

Re: The Magician

Postby Lorredan on 06 Jan 2013, 09:58

Pen wrote:Hi Marcos, glad you're back!

It took me a while, but at last I found the exact ref.

The Hierophant figure turns out to be St James. Here 'tis...

The Fall of the Magician



Pen

I was wondering why Pen thought saint James was a Hierophant figure when he looks more like the Hermit?
I have this print of the same subject. Note the Hour glass bottom right....The demons shout we will be dead before our time...(the Golden legend)
james_hermogenes_m-300x223.jpg
james_hermogenes_m-300x223.jpg (41.63 KiB) Viewed 4737 times

~Lorredan
The Universe is full of magical things patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper.
Eden Phillpotts
User avatar
Lorredan
 

Re: The Magician

Postby Ross G. R. Caldwell on 01 Apr 2013, 16:43

The Tübingen Hausbuch, with the Children of Luna picture that Huck posted at the top of this thread, is downloadable in PDF (in color!) at Tübingen University -
http://idb.ub.uni-tuebingen.de/diglit/Md2
(181 megs)

Image
(folio 272r)

The library gives a range of production dates from 1430 to 1480, in Württemberg.
http://swb2.bsz-bw.de/DB=2.312/SET=3/PP ... 97.31.8,FY

(it would seem the old "1404" date has been firmly rejected)
Image
User avatar
Ross G. R. Caldwell
Pedant
 
Location: Béziers
Favorite Deck: Bibl. nat. Estampes, Kh. 34 rés t.I
Mood: Pedantic
Aliases: belmurru

Re: The Magician

Postby robert on 01 Apr 2013, 19:31

Thanks for that Ross!

What is the object between the cups? A wand?

And why is the other figure holding a stick?
cavete deos
User avatar
robert
your host
 
Location: Oxford, England
Favorite Deck: Jacques Vieville
Mood: autumnal
Aliases: le pendu

Re: The Magician

Postby Ross G. R. Caldwell on 02 Apr 2013, 10:45

robert wrote:Thanks for that Ross!

What is the object between the cups? A wand?

And why is the other figure holding a stick?


I'm sure it's a wand. Why the other figure holding the stick? I don't know - I guess maybe he's threatening the magician in case he sees him cheating? But really, who knows?

The text doesn't seem to explain the scene, or even mention it.

From Reinhard Hirth's Planetenkinder page -

http://www.pascua.de/planetenkinder/hintergrund.htm
(go down to "Luna")

Here is the text for the Children of Luna, with Hirth's modernized German and the straight Google Translation (someone please clean it up!)-

"Mein Kind ist unbeständig wie der Mond und bleibt selten an einer Stelle, es fängt vieles an, lügt zwar gerne, verfügt aber über weise Rede, hat ein kaltes Wesen, gerne ungesund, gerät wegen kleinen Dingen in Zorn und wird ungemütlich. Ein Mond-Kind wird selten 60 Jahre alt. Lieblingsberufe sind Kaufmann, Schiffer, Läufer oder Bote. Sein Gesicht ist rund, bleich und hell, seine Stirne breit, ein Auge ist größer als das andere, es hat eine kurze Nase mit weiten Nasenlöchern, einen dicken Mund, sein Gesicht weist häufig Flecken auf; er wird frühzeitig grau und hat selten Glück."

My child is inconstant as the moon and seldom remains in one place, it starts much, but lying like, but features as speech, has a cold nature, like unhealthy device because small things in anger and is uncomfortable. Moon Child is a rare 60 years old. Favorite occupations are a merchant, sailor, runner or messenger. His face is round, pale and bright, wide his forehead, one eye is bigger than the other, it has a short nose with wide nostrils, a big mouth, his face often has spots, it turns gray early and has rarely lucky.

And an apology to Michael Hurst - this text explicitly makes the merchant, Kaufmann, a Child of Luna. I have previously held that the merchant is a Child of Mercury.
Image
User avatar
Ross G. R. Caldwell
Pedant
 
Location: Béziers
Favorite Deck: Bibl. nat. Estampes, Kh. 34 rés t.I
Mood: Pedantic
Aliases: belmurru

Previous

Return to Bianca's Garden


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests