Crowley's switch

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Re: Crowley's switch

Postby Ross G. R. Caldwell on 13 Aug 2012, 18:01

Huck wrote:But Crowley suggested an Alphabet-change, or not?


No, of course not. He didn't change the Paths (between the Sephiroth) on the Tree of LIfe either. Either of these would have been unthinkable for him.

Proof of this is the fact that he counted Heh as 5 and Tzaddi as 90 throughout his life. It would screw up every gematria calculation involving those letters to now count Tzaddi as 5 and Heh as 90.

All he changed was the CARD assigned to Letter-Path. The cards follow the letters, not the letters the cards. Note that he also did not change the order of the cards - the Emperor still bears the number 4, even though it has the letter Tzaddi. The Tarot order, in its own sphere, is still the same. When it is overlaid on the Tree of LIfe's Letter-Paths, however, his Tarot order now runs Fool-Magician-Priestess-Empress-Star-Hierophant... etc. and at the end Devil-Tower-Emperor-Moon-Sun-Aeon-Universe.
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Re: Crowley's switch

Postby Huck on 13 Aug 2012, 20:03

Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:
No, of course not. He didn't change the Paths (between the Sephiroth) on the Tree of LIfe either. Either of these would have been unthinkable for him.

Proof of this is the fact that he counted Heh as 5 and Tzaddi as 90 throughout his life. It would screw up every gematria calculation involving those letters to now count Tzaddi as 5 and Heh as 90.

All he changed was the CARD assigned to Letter-Path. The cards follow the letters, not the letters the cards. Note that he also did not change the order of the cards - the Emperor still bears the number 4, even though it has the letter Tzaddi. The Tarot order, in its own sphere, is still the same. When it is overlaid on the Tree of LIfe's Letter-Paths, however, the Tarot order now runs Fool-Magician-Priestess-Empress-Star-Pope... etc. and at the end Devil-Tower-Emperor-Moon-Sun.


... :-) ... so he behaved, as if he had done nothing? But what was his idea about the context? Somebody should have (before) arranged the matter so, that Crowley could find it again? Who ... ? And when?

Well, we know in our time, that there were more than one Tarot order (however, an order with double loop of the zodiac didn't show up) and likely we also know, that there was not only one life tree order, and even the Sepher Yetzirah knew variants in its astrological attribution. And in the time of Sepher Yetirah it's very doubtful, if the life-tree with connecting paths existed in this form, but the letter paths inside 32 paths were something different - completely.
Alright, Crowley "restored" the old order ...

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... not without finding a new more interesting name of the card, "Lust". Justice with 11 (Golden Dawn interpretation) was only found in the Petit Oracle des Dames ...

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... and there also Force was part of number 8 (also as in Golden Dawn).
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So that was all a rather creative game then. So why I'm attacked, if I call the whole process "Crowley's confusion" in a global manner? Neither Crowley's suggestion "double loop of the zodiac" nor Golden Dawn's analogy hit the point, that they had much to do with the older past of the Tarot game. Should I've had selected the expression "Golden-Dawn / Crowley confusion"?
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Re: Crowley's switch

Postby Ross G. R. Caldwell on 15 Aug 2012, 11:40

Huck wrote:... :-) ... so he behaved, as if he had done nothing? But what was his idea about the context? Somebody should have (before) arranged the matter so, that Crowley could find it again? Who ... ? And when?


I really don't know what you've understood about what I wrote before. I think you haven't really read it or understood it. I also asked the question of you - Do you believe there is a correct Hebrew letter-Tarot trump correspondence? Your answer would help me understand your inability to grasp what I wrote about the GD and Crowley's messing about with the order of the trumps.

I've explained the context of the GD switch of Justice and Strength - the Single letter Sepher Yetzirah (SY) correspondences make Teth Leo and Lamed Libra.

The 19th century occultists believed that Tarot was ancient Egyptian wisdom. They also believed that Kabbalah was ancient Egyptian wisdom, and that Moses was Hermes Trismegistus (or his father or son), which is why the Hebrew Alphabet can contain Egyptian wisdom.

The founders of the GD and authors of the Cipher Manuscript (CM) believed that the French occultists like Levi were wrong or deliberately hiding the true Hebrew letter attributions (the famous "blinds") of the Tarot, starting with Magician-Aleph, and ridiculously putting the Fool as Shin, between Judgement and the World. So they corrected it by putting the Fool first.

Starting Aleph-Fool as the GD CM did, this makes Teth Justice and Lamed Strength. Since the astrological imagery is clearly the opposite, the Manuscript created a reason for switching them. The reason is that they were cognate symbols in ancient Egypt, with the sickle of Leo being the sword of Justice, and the Woman and Lion being "the balance point", and the suppression of the fires of Vulcan. But the authors of the CM just didn't like it, and said that Teth-Leo-Strength and Lamed-Libra-Justice "is better". So that is that.

The English occultists also believed that there were Secret Chiefs of a hidden Order that directed everything, and that the CM had their authority.

In 1900, Mathers claimed that the CM was a forgery, which essentially destroyed the Golden Dawn. But many members including Crowley continued to believe in the truth of the Secret Chiefs and their directions.

In 1904 he wrote the Book of the Law under conditions which convinced him it was a communication from the Secret Chiefs, and that as the messenger of this revelation it gave him authority to start a new Order, which he called the AA.

One of the things this revelation from the Secret Chiefs said was "All these old letters of my book are aright, but [Tzaddi] is not the Star. This also is secret. My prophet shall reveal it to the wise." Crowley believed that this meant that the CM equation of Star-Tzaddi-Aquarius had to be transposed with another set of attributions in the Tarot.

When he finally figured out a solution he liked - as I detailed in my lenghty exposition of his thought on the subject from 1904-1920 - it appears that the clincher (the detail or aspect which proves decisive in an argument) was that when he compared the astrological attributions of the first Secret Chief switch of Leo-Libra with the Book of the Law's one of Tzaddi-Star-Aquarius and something that he was sure was Heh-Emperor-Aries, he noticed that there was a perfect balance of astrological attribution transpositions on one side of the Zodiac and another - his famous "double loop".

THAT is the context - that's all. This question has nothing to do with the origins of the alphabet or the age of the Sepher Yetzirah. The only context is 19th century occultism and competing claims of authority.

Well, we know in our time, that there were more than one Tarot order (however, an order with double loop of the zodiac didn't show up) and likely we also know, that there was not only one life tree order, and even the Sepher Yetzirah knew variants in its astrological attribution. And in the time of Sepher Yetirah it's very doubtful, if the life-tree with connecting paths existed in this form, but the letter paths inside 32 paths were something different - completely.


None of this is relevant at all. If you want to discuss 19th century occultist beliefs, then that is what we must discuss. I already know you don't want to discuss it, but I'd rather leave a clear last word than obscure irrelevant mumblings on this thread.

Of course we won't find a "double loop" in any old Tarot - Crowley invented it! And - the original Tarot had no "astrological attributions" anyway. It's like saying "we haven't found an old Tarot with the Periodic Table yet either, but maybe we will one day."

I return to my original and only real question - do you believe the 22 trumps were ordered according to the Hebrew alphabet in the 15th century?

Alright, Crowley "restored" the old order ...

Image

... not without finding a new more interesting name of the card, "Lust". Justice with 11 (Golden Dawn interpretation) was only found in the Petit Oracle des Dames ...

Image

... and there also Force was part of number 8 (also as in Golden Dawn).
Image

So that was all a rather creative game then. So why I'm attacked, if I call the whole process "Crowley's confusion" in a global manner? Neither Crowley's suggestion "double loop of the zodiac" nor Golden Dawn's analogy hit the point, that they had much to do with the older past of the Tarot game. Should I've had selected the expression "Golden-Dawn / Crowley confusion"?


These are irrelevant too. Nice coincidence, but nothing to do with the Sepher Yetzirah's attribution of the 12 Zodiac signs with the 12 Single letters. It is THIS that the Golden Dawn based their attributions on.

The point of this thread is not the "older past of the Tarot game". It is to correct your mistaken assertion about Crowley and the Justice-Strength switch in the Golden Dawn. These facts have nothing to do with the current state of research about 15th century Tarot.

If that is what you want to talk about, then this thread is not the place.
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Re: Crowley's switch

Postby debra on 15 Aug 2012, 20:19

Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:And - the original Tarot had no "astrological attributions" anyway.


The old cards contain quite a lot of obvious astrological imagery.
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Re: Crowley's switch

Postby Huck on 20 Aug 2012, 14:51

Ross wrote:I return to my original and only real question - do you believe the 22 trumps were ordered according to the Hebrew alphabet in the 15th century?


Well, happy birthday ...

Ordering something according an alphabet is VERY common, independent from possible ideological content of the letters. A, B, C etc. could be similar used as 1,2,3 etc. ...

Can we conclude, that in the possibly many versions of different Trionfi card decks and orders in 15th century somebody counted cards with A, B, C ... instead with 1, 2, 3 or 0, 1, 2, 3 ... ? I think not. Actually we have with the Mantegna Tarocchi scheme an example, that somebody ordered A-B-C-D-E, modified to A-B-C-D-E.

Decks with 14 or 16 or 20 likely didn't less invite to use A-B-C ... etc. as decks with 21 or 22 trumps of special cards. So it's a question, what happened, when the deck development reached this state.

In Chess it's very common to address fields with letters and numbers. I don't know for the moment, how old this tradition is.
As far I remember, that we have some negative ideological relations between letters and the eyes of a die in game moralizations, possibly also relations between 21 dice results and letters.

We have this German "pope-with-donkey" lot book, which seems to organize 22 elements in a relation of 13 Months - 5 Planets - Moon - Sun - Emperor - Pope, that's in it's idea very near to that, what is attempted by the 19th century development of Levi - Golden-Dawn - Crowley, which actually also mainly aimed to get astrology inside the scheme.

So, what do you expect, what I should say to your question? Something like Yes or No?
Did you read this once?

http://trionfi.com/tarot/new-themes/sepher-yetzirah/
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Re: Crowley's switch

Postby Ross G. R. Caldwell on 21 Aug 2012, 17:15

Huck wrote:So, what do you expect, what I should say to your question? Something like Yes or No?


Yes, exactly. I remember that you one time noted that Boiardo was a relative of Pico della Mirandola, with the implication that Kabbalism could have influened the design of his Triumphs game with 22 trumps.

Since you think Boiardo was the first to use 22 trumps, I think you do believe that it is based on the number of letters in the Hebrew alphabet.

All the occultists believed so as well. Court de Gébelin was not an occultist per se, but he believed it. Etteilla did too, but did not elaborate much on it. It was Lévi who created the associations that cemented the link for both French and English occultists, and Crowley completely believed it. But they believed it was original and ancient - Egyptian - and not 15th century. Their Kabbalistic connection has nothing to do with yours.
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Re: Crowley's switch

Postby Huck on 22 Aug 2012, 08:09

Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:
Yes, exactly. I remember that you one time noted that Boiardo was a relative of Pico della Mirandola, with the implication that Kabbalism could have influened the design of his Triumphs game with 22 trumps.

Since you think Boiardo was the first to use 22 trumps, I think you do believe that it is based on the number of letters in the Hebrew alphabet.


Hm. I think, it's possible, that Boiardo is the first, who used 22 special cards. I think, that's NOT identical to "Boiardo was the first to use 22 trumps".
If he really was the first, then it's a good question, if some correspondence between Boiardo and his cousin Giovanni Pico de Mirandola preceded the choice of 22 figures. It's recognizable, that the publication of Pico's Kabbala text (December 1486) and the assumed date of Boiardo's poem ("made for Lucrezia d'Este's wedding in January 1487") are very close to each other and another fact is, that Boiardo made Hebrew studies himself, as Pico.
Well, these latter phenomenons ALSO could be just accidental.

All the occultists believed so as well.


I would assume, that most occultists didn't care about the Boiardo Tarocchi poem, anyway, it seems plausible, that they didn't know about it mostly. There's quite a difference between the overview about Tarot history, which we have in Internet times and after-Dummett-et-al, and that, what the "occultists" had around 1900.

Court de Gébelin was not an occultist per se, but he believed it. Etteilla did too, but did not elaborate much on it. It was Lévi who created the associations that cemented the link for both French and English occultists, and Crowley completely believed it. But they believed it was original and ancient - Egyptian - and not 15th century. Their Kabbalistic connection has nothing to do with yours.


... :-) ... I ALSO believe, that the old Egyptians could count till 22. And in their district system at the upper Nile they used the 22 for "ideological-religious" reasons, that's common knowledge in old Egyptian history.

Nonetheless I see a lot of differences between my position and that of the "occultists".

****************

Huck wrote:Did you read this once?
http://trionfi.com/tarot/new-themes/sepher-yetzirah/


Did you? And did you understand it?
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Lord of Misrule

Postby Yngwaz on 12 Sep 2012, 03:32

A foolish blunder, perhaps, that 3 of the 4 Tarot cards bound in this double loop of confusion are also those among the 22 icons bearing greatest similarity to the constellations of the zodiac. Counting from the “cipher”, they likewise correspond to simple letters of the Hebrew alphabet indexing zodiacal houses. And they would even match those corresponding simple letters’ astrological signs save for the scales of Justice & lion’s Force trading places.

A question to be explored: would such an alignment of Tarot with Hebrew serve any instructive value by such an apparent mismatch?

From a Renaissance alchemist’s perspective, it might offer a cryptic allegory concerning the Sun’s rule and Saturn’s exaltation - “planets” whose association with Gold & Lead alone alludes to a certain fabled Stone of the Philosophers.

11 Leo ♌ Realm of the Sun ⊙ Gold
8 Libra ♎ Exaltation of Saturn ♄ Lead

Or a foolish joke, maybe- concerning our state of affairs. Force occupying the house of Justice so long as Lead remains exalted where Gold ought rule. Condition: Babylon.

An eye for emblem might give pause to reflect whether there were a commentary there, but only if familiar with the symbolic continuities indexed by Hebrew alphabet.

In that respect, the numbers 11 and 8 share in a symmetrical union realized within the QaBaLaH tree when all 10 points of its geometric lattice are united at Da’at. There a kind of ‘Knowledge’ is hidden at the uncounted point “11” where a centered hexagon of “planets” is completed upon Saturn’s “return”. Call it projection, but this hexagon presents a view to the composition of a cube = 2³

Through the 10 horns of a 7-headed dragon we approach the ‘forehead of mystery’, so-to-speak.

And in a similar vein, one might recognize the 11 different nets of an octahedron, or hear the dissonant sound of a TriTone - the interval within a music scale approximating half an octave (√2 x √2 = 2:1), defined by a number attuned to the dual polyhedral symmetry of octahedron & cube. As a ratio derived from harmonic progression, 11/8 comes closest to the irrational number of an equal-tempered TriTone. Though it would be fair to say a closer approximation is cast where the Fishhook meets Water.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0RgHwN_sXr0/T ... ence11.jpg

Presumably to catch a “Fish” () = √3 ≈ 265/153

Our “savior” resurrected from a Traitor’s punishment, attaining to an immortality, of sorts, universally basic to any inhabitant of time and space, written in a recursive pattern of macrocosm in microcosm, and as above so below. This strange loop exploits an enigmatic harmony of numbers, drawing geometric parallels from the mathematics of equal-tempered & Pythagorean music scales, and applying them to the gaging of temporal cycles observable between the seven “planets” of antiquity.

On that note,
XIX The Sun is counted third among the sequence of octahedral numbers:







as the sum of all triumphant Tarot, 231, is counted seventh:















By this cipher, the sum of the simple zodiac letters, 127, forms the seventh centered hexagon whilst casting a 2-d slice of the seven cube. The sum of those letters’ digital roots, 73 = a star number similarly rendering the stella octangula, or dual tetrahedrons, that “fits” closest within that seven cube.

127:73 ≈ √3

The brightest Star in the night is Sirius. At -17º declination from “Kesil” astride the celestial equator (0º), she becomes circumpolar at 73º south and disappears from view at 73º north. Alone among the stars, she does not move with the precession of equinoxes. From before the Kemet called her Sopdet, Sirius has remained the pivot of Ages - a fixed point.

When observed from the latitudes of the Nile Valley, her helical rise occurs every 365.25 days - and thus is a useful measure of the solar year. Long ago she marked the coming floodwaters that would inundate the fields of Kemet - an omen of which the ram-headed deity Khnum took heed before letting the currents’ force loose at the cataracts of the great river. This annual cycle was welcomed by the people farming along its’ banks as a gift from the gods, depositing nutrient rich sediments from the highlands upstream. A nourishment which brought a fertility so essential to the life of that river valley that its inhabitants named their domain ‘Kemet’ for the ‘Black’ richness the receding waters left behind. Naturally, this reverence for their civilization’s regenerative cycle played a decisive role in aligning the southern shaft of the Queen’s chamber, built into Khnum-khufu’s Great Mer, with the zenith of Sirius. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FICjKwyXevQ/T ... Bmelon.jpg

Facts which might all seem incidental to the icons of Tarot were it not for that monument’s curious relationship with the symmetries of seven embedded within the 3-7-12 subdivision of Hebrew letters. These groupings, read as sums representing figurate numbers which, combined, provide the framework for the QaBaLaH tree’s geometric lattice.

In synch, another method of partitioning the letters is arranged within this matrix: through a grouping of the letter-symbols by the digital root of their numerical sequence (aleph=0), rendering them composite nodules of an integrated artifice one assembles within this “tree”. This esoteric practice of building mandalas with numbered alphabets calculates the architectural underpinnings of the trick to “standardizing” Tarot.

2 = 11 = 20
3 = 12 = 21
4 = 13 = 0
5 = 14
6 = 15
7 = 16
8 = 17
9 = 18
10 = 19 = 1

Or, to utilize a Babylon¡an(?) layer of symbols:

☽ = ♌ = △
♀ = ▽ = ♄
♈ = ♏ = ⨺
♉ = ♐
♊ = ♑
♋ = ♂
♎ = ♒
♍ = ♓
♃ = ⊙ = ☿

As with any puzzle, at first its’ pieces seem just that: pieces, independent unto themselves. But recognizing how each of these groupings represent 2-d projections of an object being constructed in higher dimensions serves as a means for grasping both the function of the 22 letters’ glyphic symbology and the standardization of icons characterizing the 22 triumphs of Tarot.

Once having integrated these two methods of partitioning the twenty-two, the transposition of VIII & XI calls out for “correction” - setting both a Serpent and an Ox Goad into motion through the tree, thereby weaving a helical path, coiling round an axis and returning to the point from which it “began" ♌--☽--♏♏♏♍--> ⊙. In effect, drawing our puzzle toward its’ solution by affording the “transcendent” and “illuminated” perspective of an eye for silhouettes. In keeping with the recursion of symmetry throughout this working, Crowley’s reputed revelation concerning “Sopdet” & “Khnum” may likewise be a well-intentioned lie.

A foolish prank, then, played upon the cipher to aid in its’ unveiling?

Modus operandi for standardizing the imagery of the Tarot deck as the encoding of knowledge made recognizable precisely by its’ most explicit discrepancy of correspondences to Hebrew letter-symbols numbered zero through twenty-one. Their ‘correction’, in providing dynamic action to the puzzle, sounds a dissonant interval between the consonance of octaves, restoring a balanced symmetry to this puzzle box tree.

At the goading of a fool (“EL”), the bountiful catch from a fisher king’s hook, and the beholding of YHVH’s Mer-Ka-Ba where Kesil’s Tower falls, a recursion of pattern is induced by this cipher, offering a game within the games of Tarot - one whose quantitative values in number equate with qualitative figurations of geometric form. The integrated artifice they produce lends an Eye to the Pyramid for seeing the measure of Time as reflected in the funerary rites of ancient Kemet, and at play with the regenerative cycle of crops and seasons as told in the journeys of Sopdet & Sah. The occultem lapidum ‘missing’ from the apex of Khnum-khufu’s Great Mer at (360/12)ºN, may become the new cornerstone of this higher dimensional symmetry once one grasps the circular logic in that monument’s quarter turn of Borromean Rings. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_bdZH0rEVDs/T ... estion.jpg

Save, I pray- “Hosiana”

A foolish gesture, at first and last, braiding a golden thread through the marriage of polarized twins, piercing our Sun upon the Tree of Immortality’s cross, housed within the golden cube of Solomon’s temple, and set to flight with caduceus wings. The lord of misrule miming a parable posed in shuffled letters, signifying “nothing”.



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