Re: Moved from AT

#11
Huck wrote:
robert wrote:Oh my god, that's hysterical, if not terribly sad.

YOU WILL BE PUNISHED!
... :-) ... I hope you don't mean me ...
... Actually it's better me than someone else, so they've really a problem.
I did mean you... you broke the rules, YOU WILL BE PUNISHED! And after you've learned your lesson, you can come crawling back for more.

And we do.
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Re: Moved from AT

#12
I did mean you... you broke the rules, YOU WILL BE PUNISHED! And after you've learned your lesson, you can come crawling back for more.

And we do.
Surely not.
Someone else learns a lesson. Or refuses to learn. But then the lesson might come later.

Let's discuss the conditions, under which we would come back.

1. a change of the moderator system for the Historical Research forum. How?

2. a change of this strange "link behavior" "you may not link to another ... than me"

Are there further very urgent interests?

3. Yes ... I wish a subforum for beginners.

Others?
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Moved from AT

#13
Well, I'm highly, highly unlikely to go back in any sort of regular manner, regardless of any changes at AT. Nor do I honestly think they care at all about Tarot History in general.. the forum has been without a moderator since Eve and Bea left.. how long is that now? Over a year? Before that, Ross left. Before that, JMD and I left. See a pattern??

But let's speculate... :D

I agree a beginners forum would be interesting, but to be honest, I think we've always been welcoming to beginners on AT anyway, and have bent over backwards trying to provide resources and references for them to educate themselves.

It starts to get trickier when we accept that none of us agree on a lot of things either.. I think all we can really say that we do agree on is the basics from Dummett. No?

One of the problems with the historical sections is that it attracts theorists... including most of us. Can we keep our personal theories out of a beginners section? What would you suggest be covered? And really.. how many people do you think actually care about Tarot History anyway?? I suspect the vast majority would rather talk about gypsies than Viscontis.

How would you change the moderation system at AT? What do you suggest?
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Re: Moved from AT

#14
robert wrote: How would you change the moderation system at AT? What do you suggest?
Well ... likely nobody of us likes the work moderator.

But we could form a group of persons, which have the character "elder member" ... in German we've have the nice expression Ältesten-Rat. They should stand between Forum and Moderator. One could make an election. Maybe 5 persons with some natural authority.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Moved from AT

#15
The problem is that being a moderator at AT is basically a job of making sure that people are following the rules. There's actually a handbook which lists what is and isn't allowed, and the job of a moderator is to read every post and make sure no one is breaking the rules. To be fair, another part of the job is to try to create and maintain a friendly and cooperative environment... the downside of this is responding to "reports" when someone clicks on the report post button, you have to take action and resolve the complaint. It's been years since I was a moderator there, so perhaps things have changed, but honestly, I can't imagine anything like what you are describing, at least in any sort of official capacity. Then again, perhaps a suggestion to Solandia, you never know.
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Re: Moved from AT

#16
About Beginners ..
Inside the hectic brainstorm around The New Forum there were enough, who said, that they read us, but felt not knowledgeable enough to say anything. But if they had "missing knowledge", they surely had questions. They feel no invitation to ask. The Beginner Forum should offer the possibilities to ask ... that should be somehow in the title.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Moved from AT

#17
They don't like authority, it implies hierarchy, patriarchy, control, repression, evil, the Church, society ... SCHOOL, with its judgments, valuations, hierarchy, win-lose, pass-fail...

"They" is Tarotists, that is. Most, the vast, vast majority, are people who consider themselves marginal, alternative, smarter than the rest of the stupid herd. Most are not used to being students, to sit and listen, to read and study, to think, to have discipline in thinking, to be wrong most of the time, to do practice until it makes perfect.

So - the very form of the statement "I don't know enough to say anything, so I don't" shows how the poster thinks. They don't have questions, they just want to state their opinion. And after that, to have their intelligence affirmed. They are not used to criticism in such a warm alternative environment, with friends, like Tarot is supposed to be.

So those of us who claim to know something, so called "historians", "experts", big-wig know-it-alls, are really just standing in for the same society that rejects them and their superior intuitive insight. We don't belong there, we are THE ESTABLISHMENT.
Image

Re: Moved from AT

#18
Yikes Mr. Grumpy!

I don't think it's as bad as all that! I think a lot of people may find the historical threads somewhat interesting, and truly, may not feel they have enough knowledge to contribute to the threads, and would hate to see them disappear entirely. I agree, there is a major difference between watching the thread, and moving to the next level of actively participating by at least asking questions if not contributing information. One of the common complaints is that the historical area makes people look stupid if they don't already have the level of knowledge. I don't think that's true myself, I think we generally always welcome new people and encourage questions. It's the ones who don't ask questions but instead come in to convert people to a personal crackpot theory that we tend to pull out the acid for.

Should there be a beginners section here?
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Re: Moved from AT

#19
robert wrote:The problem is that being a moderator at AT is basically a job of making sure that people are following the rules. There's actually a handbook which lists what is and isn't allowed, and the job of a moderator is to read every post and make sure no one is breaking the rules. To be fair, another part of the job is to try to create and maintain a friendly and cooperative environment... the downside of this is responding to "reports" when someone clicks on the report post button, you have to take action and resolve the complaint. It's been years since I was a moderator there, so perhaps things have changed, but honestly, I can't imagine anything like what you are describing, at least in any sort of official capacity. Then again, perhaps a suggestion to Solandia, you never know.
Well, this backdoor handling is a problem. If the Tarot history is declared to have independence from Aeclectic, it could have some function of open complain. Or, the complain button could give information, that first the Ältestenrat should be requested. And there could be some explanation why.
Well ... if it isn't so easy to protest, a lot of the protesting energy is lost immediately, cause the persons start to think. Well, we also regulate our differences through own thinking.
When I offered in the New Forum thread to move all negative feelings to the place of critique, two persons, who actually made more compliments than critique, came and got some explanation and seemed to be satisfied, and there was the post of Yygdrasilian, and this was a post, which the moderators likely doesn't get.

Yes, of course, it's thought to be a suggestion to Solandia. Do you have so much complaints as webmaster of tarothistory.com as you had as moderator from Aeclectic? Likely not. So which is the factor, which makes tarothistory.com simpler than the Historical Research Forum?
Huck
http://trionfi.com

Re: Moved from AT

#20
robert wrote: Should there be a beginners section here?
Yes ... we need new persons. Well, it's more, that those, who would have some quality and would have the chance to find a home here, get the urge to post and find some entry. We don't bite ... but our articles are so full of references to earlier discussions, that any newcomer gets the signal, that it is a closed group.
Huck
http://trionfi.com

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