Moved from AT

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Re: Moved from AT

Postby robert on 02 Apr 2012, 23:29

Hi Penthasalia, welcome to the forum!
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Re: Moved from AT

Postby Penthasilia on 03 Apr 2012, 00:18

robert wrote:Hi Penthasalia, welcome to the forum!



Thanks! Glad to be here! :)
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Re: Moved from AT

Postby Huck on 03 Apr 2012, 08:05

Penthasilia wrote:Huck-I would like to say I am surprised, but I can't- though it is a shame, really.

I saw your thread, saw the post, and knew (as you probably did) that it would be gone before a day was up. I was not expecting them to ban you from the forum- to me that is ridiculous. But, they cater to a certain populace, and are losing some great participants in the lunacy of it all.

The same thing happened with Ciro posted that he would not be on AT anymore. He didn't post anything else- just "I will not be on the forum, please feel free to email me..." and that was it. His post, plus any that quoted it, all disappeared into that purple mod heaven.

IMHO- the health of a forum such as AT is dependent on the quality of their membership. If they continue to alienate the artists/creators and historians- what will they have left? Not much in my opinion. Pretty much the "mall" of tarot forums, and- WATCH OUT KIDS!!!! It is pre-teen Saturday night!

:-B


hi Penthasilea,
Nice, that you found us here ...

Well, in my post I invited the moderators to think well and to make wise decisions ...
So think well about that, what you will do, and become wise about the variants of communicative life.


And in one of three letters, which I wrote in these days I stated:

I'm a patient and calm man. Naturally I don't like to be banned. If someone tells me ... "Go ...", it's okay and I go. But I do not return without an excuse of the other side. I hope you understand that.


Two of the letters stayed "not answered" till now.

Well, wisdom needs its time. If it happens, that an excuse will appear, then there should be negotiations, what might be a future, with which all sides could agree. If not, I personally would've to organize my interests elsewhere. That's not an impossible task.

... :-) ... authors live with the idea, that their work is of some value. Naturally authors quickly learn, that this is not recognized by everybody and everywhere. So the author has to search for places, where it might be accepted. ... .-) ... If one is banned somewhere, that's usually an indication, that this is not the right place. ... for authors it's wise, not to be dependent on one place alone, otherwise the author might experience, that the "publishers" might start to dictate the conditions and that leads to not acceptable absurdities.
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Re: Moved from AT

Postby Ross G. R. Caldwell on 03 Apr 2012, 08:18

I don't think we'll see any "excuses" (apologies), and I don't think they'll feel anything is missing with us gone.

When Steve posted that you had been banned along with a lament that all the historians had decided to leave, another poster responded to him that it must be a joke, since it was April 1. I wrote her privately saying it wasn't a joke, you had been banned, and the historians had decided to boycott for now. She wrote back "Huck insulted me, but I didn't mind. I guess somebody else did. O well".

This was from a loud complainer on the History threads, whom you would think would beg us to stay. Not at all. I guess you deserved it, the authorities know what they're doing.

I also warned her that Steve's post and her own would soon be scrubbed - as they were, within the hour.

Doesn't seem to have fazed her in the slightest. The authorities know what they're doing. If they have to take my neighbours away, they must have done something to deserve it. Never bothered me living next door to them, but they must have pissed somebody off. People disappear? Not my problem.

I suppose that anyone who really WAS serious on AT, will find THF for now.
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Re: Moved from AT

Postby Huck on 03 Apr 2012, 08:59

I don't remember of having consciously insulted a "she", but naturally the world is full of possibilities to misunderstand something. If "she" is interested to talk to me about it, I'm here, and otherwise it's likely better, if I don't know about it.
I was banned officially for linking to an own forum. I was told in some underground information (from which I don't know, if this is correct), that this would mean the link to this thread, which I posted in the killed thread to underline, that, if the moderators would decide to kill the thread, that it wouldn't help, as we could publish elsewhere. And it added, that it would be far easier to solve problems at the place, where the problems occurred.

In the last of my letters I addressed the point:

The accusation "using ATF to promote own Forum" was, as I've been told (by underground information, not officially) related to the link, which I made to this thread. ... :-) ... well, it isn't "mine" Forum, but I said in the thread something like "our [historian's) Forum" or that we use another Forum for our own independence, so the moderator might have understood it this way.
Ironically I had been told by another moderator (I better don't say, by whom), that linking in this way ...

"fitting thread"

... would be okay, but linking this way ...

viewtopic.php?f=16&p=11185#p11185

... and indeed, though being nerved by this stupid complication, I used ...

"fitting thread"

... so if it is true, what I've heard, that this linking is also forbidden, then the final cut is definitely given, at least to me, cause I've 1500 posts in tarothistory.com and 2000 at aeclectic, and if I'm not allowed to link between my own works, well .... Then the rules of Aeclectic would definitely hurt anything, which is good custom on the book market since 100's of years.
If a publisher demands, that their authors do not present footnotes, which contain books of other publishers ... that would be definitely such a bad taste, that's hardly to express in polite words.


In practice I linked from posts here to Aeclectic and from Aeclectic to here ... this was a fair exchange of links. I understand the interest of the Aeclectic Forum to avoid foreign advertisement ... but in the Historical Research that's not practicable, at least not to me, cause I'm mostly focused on Research projects and real work. Well, if they don't want it, they don't get it. This has to be cleared anyway.
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Re: Moved from AT

Postby Ross G. R. Caldwell on 03 Apr 2012, 09:09

This member didn't know why you were banned. What really bothered me was that she believed a perceived insult could be a satisfactory reason for being banned. She seemed nonchalant - "o well". I think this sums up the attitude of most the people who complained so much about the Historical Research forum on AT.

They come on, make a stink about being heard, say how important it is... and then when it stops, "o well", it wasn't THAT important ... there're other places on the forum too, like "Can the 6 of swords mean he's thinking of leaving me?", SO much else to do in Tarotland, who cares about Tarot history anyway, when all they do is insult you, call themselves historians, act like they know everything. Good riddance to them.
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Re: Moved from AT

Postby Pen on 03 Apr 2012, 10:40

Ross G. R. Caldwell wrote:
I suppose that anyone who really WAS serious on AT, will find THF for now.


I think they will, and some will follow the elders who have deserted AT, simply because they are serious tarot historians and can't be replaced.

Hi and welcome Penthasilia... ~o)
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy...
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Re: Moved from AT

Postby Huck on 03 Apr 2012, 11:48

... :-) ... One shouldn't hate the desert, cause it has no water. If it had water, it wouldn't be the desert.

One should occasionally evaluate the good perspectives against the impressions, that life is complicated and not satisfactory.
In my own evaluation I'd had last year a lot of progress in many research fields,so I really can't talk of a bad year. Actually it was one of the best regarding this. The Italian connections have developed in splendid manner, general research had made by this a jump in before not expected heights. The last half year was a sequence of silent revolutions, soooo much new material. Me wasn't silent about it, but judging from the missing reactions I've to assume, that my own enthusiasm about it wasn't really understood. Well, we've worked long years to improve Tarot History. However, success in it forms the natural condition, that all themes had become more complicated, and "more complicated" means, that not so much others participate in the process (and progress). So we've negative results in the Forum communication - somehow logical.
So we have to look for solutions to get some of the old fun back in the forums. And perhaps it's better not to look too much at the things, which did not run well at Aeclectic, but possibly we should focus more on that, what might be done better here. Brainstorming (and some active work connected to it) might be that, what moves fresh energies, for instance in the installment of a beginner section or - perhaps better - a sort of half-independent Tarot-History Beginner Forum.
Well - Alpha and Omega of fresh energies are often simply new persons, and we have not so much of them.
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Re: Moved from AT

Postby R.A. Hendley on 03 Apr 2012, 13:17

I'm not too sure about a "beginners forum". Wouldn't an a locked "Orientation" thread in the Foyer with a few essential links (Taropedia, pre-Gebelin, etc.), a short list of required reading, and a nice disclaimer saying that anything presented as "history" will be rigorously examined as such be enough? "Spoon-feeding" the mildly curious wouldn't increase the number of quality participants IMO.
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Re: Moved from AT

Postby robert on 03 Apr 2012, 18:30

R.A. Hendley wrote:I'm not too sure about a "beginners forum". Wouldn't an a locked "Orientation" thread in the Foyer with a few essential links (Taropedia, pre-Gebelin, etc.), a short list of required reading, and a nice disclaimer saying that anything presented as "history" will be rigorously examined as such be enough? "Spoon-feeding" the mildly curious wouldn't increase the number of quality participants IMO.


Good points. Perhaps we should focus on sorting through the "orientation" information, what we should put in it, and worry about another subforum later.

Lovely to see you Mel.
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