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Tarot History Forum • Jean Noblet Tarot - Page 2
Page 2 of 4

Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Posted: 09 Apr 2009, 20:30
by Marcei
Hi Robert,

I, too, was thrilled years ago upon receiving the 22 card Jean Noblet, (I have yet to order the full deck) to see the more complete version of the fool's hat which explained one of the circular shapes on the staff. I still don't know what to make of the second circular shape on the Conver versions that Camoin shows in white with a tiny black triangle. There have, of course, been some other extraordinary explanations for many of these enigmatic details.

As for the spoon, there is yet another old illustration that justifies its presence, and you can see it if you go to the Essays of Andrea Vitali and read Card 0: The Fool. As you read that essay, click on the link to Figure #9. There you will see “Prodigal Son” and the “Path of Life” in Bosch‘s “Haycart Triptych.” I highly recommend all of the essays that Vitali has written on the major arcana and hope that essays on those cards not yet covered, are yet to come.

P.S. Love your icon!

Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Posted: 10 Apr 2009, 02:06
by jmd
Yes - and the image of the Lynx I use in my pdf course (soon to be a book) is the following, shown in its full similarity to the Noblet Fou's lynx-like creature:

Image
Image


Personally, I suspect that the likely intent, at least on the Noblet, may indeed be of a lynx rather than of a dog.

Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Posted: 10 Apr 2009, 03:29
by Marcei
Exactly, JMD. I am thrilled to hear about and very much look forward to your “soon to be book.”

While we're on Le Fov, I think the exposed genitals send the clear message, “exposed and vulnerable” which is the way we all come into and experience this world—some more so than others (circumcision) and if one still does not get the message, there is the cat/lynx with extended claws!

Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Posted: 10 Apr 2009, 13:07
by EUGIM
Hello JMD and Marcei.
Very interesting your image JMD.
I remember now the book of Gerard de Sede " Le Mystere Gothique" where he talking about the men who build the cathedrals,said that there were three status of applicants to builders.
The lower was represented as a fox,the next grade as a wolf and the third and highest status as a dog.

-From this came the word cagots = dog of the Goths
In the language of Occitania,dog is named as can but pronounced Ca.
Goth is write and pronounced Got

Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Posted: 11 Apr 2009, 16:47
by EnriqueEnriquez
Talking to Jean-Claude and Roxanne, they pointed out that the creature scratching the Fool may very well be a Civet. Civets were used as household pet-control pets in the Middle Ages. They are indeed dray and have black stripes.

Best,


EE

Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Posted: 12 Apr 2009, 10:25
by jmd
I'd thought long and hard about various possibilities, and in the end discarded the civet (or as it is known in France, the African Civet[te]) due to the clarity of difference between the depicted animal's short tail and the rather overly thick one found on civets (and their illustrations).

This does not mean we should dismiss the possibility, but it seems to me less likely than a lynx.

Here are two images I quickly obtained from the net for the purposes of comparison:

Image

Image


Still, and again comparing these in distinction to either a bad representation of a dog or a not too bad representation of a European lynx, I find the last of these the most likely... in terms of the Noblet.

In addition, I should perhaps add here that Mark Filipas, in his Alphabetic Masquerade, mentions the FOX in connection with this card.

Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Posted: 12 Apr 2009, 11:00
by SteveM
jmd wrote:In addition, I should perhaps add here that Mark Filipas, in his Alphabetic Masquerade, mentions the FOX in connection with this card.
What sort of fox would that be?

שועל(fox) :
שועל החולות Vulpes rueppelli
פנק Vulpes zerda
שועל מצוי Vulpes vulpes
שועל הכף Vulpes chama
שועל צוקים Vulpes cana
שועל קורסאקי Vulpes corsac
שועל מקרוטיס Vulpes macrotis
שועל קיט Vulpes velox

שועל זאבי Dusicyon
שועל ארגנטינאי Pseudalopex
שועל שלג Alopex
שועל אפור Urocyon
שועל אוזנן Otocyon

Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Posted: 12 Apr 2009, 11:25
by jmd
As usual, Steve, a fantastic list of possible alternatives... and of course I realise that you're aware that Mark Filipas suggests a correlation with Tav, not Shin.

If anyone is interested, there's a pretty useful summary of his small book's correlation on his site at www.spiritone.com/~mfilipas.

In this case, the word(s) used for 'fox' are based on and derived from the sources he lists. Specifically, תעל ThOL.

Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Posted: 12 Apr 2009, 11:43
by SteveM
jmd wrote:In this case, the word(s) used for 'fox' are based on and derived from the sources he lists. Specifically, תעל ThOL.
I prefer your lynx, perhaps it has fallen of Filipas WoF* ;)

*YNQS=LYNX

Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Posted: 12 Apr 2009, 11:55
by jmd
I made that same misreading when I first looked at his list... that's not Lynx, but iynx ;)