Jean Noblet Tarot

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Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Postby Marcei on 09 Apr 2009, 19:30

Hi Robert,

I, too, was thrilled years ago upon receiving the 22 card Jean Noblet, (I have yet to order the full deck) to see the more complete version of the fool's hat which explained one of the circular shapes on the staff. I still don't know what to make of the second circular shape on the Conver versions that Camoin shows in white with a tiny black triangle. There have, of course, been some other extraordinary explanations for many of these enigmatic details.

As for the spoon, there is yet another old illustration that justifies its presence, and you can see it if you go to the Essays of Andrea Vitali and read Card 0: The Fool. As you read that essay, click on the link to Figure #9. There you will see “Prodigal Son” and the “Path of Life” in Bosch‘s “Haycart Triptych.” I highly recommend all of the essays that Vitali has written on the major arcana and hope that essays on those cards not yet covered, are yet to come.

P.S. Love your icon!
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Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Postby jmd on 10 Apr 2009, 01:06

Yes - and the image of the Lynx I use in my pdf course (soon to be a book) is the following, shown in its full similarity to the Noblet Fou's lynx-like creature:

ImageImage

Personally, I suspect that the likely intent, at least on the Noblet, may indeed be of a lynx rather than of a dog.
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Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Postby Marcei on 10 Apr 2009, 02:29

Exactly, JMD. I am thrilled to hear about and very much look forward to your “soon to be book.”

While we're on Le Fov, I think the exposed genitals send the clear message, “exposed and vulnerable” which is the way we all come into and experience this world—some more so than others (circumcision) and if one still does not get the message, there is the cat/lynx with extended claws!
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Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Postby EUGIM on 10 Apr 2009, 12:07

Hello JMD and Marcei.
Very interesting your image JMD.
I remember now the book of Gerard de Sede " Le Mystere Gothique" where he talking about the men who build the cathedrals,said that there were three status of applicants to builders.
The lower was represented as a fox,the next grade as a wolf and the third and highest status as a dog.

-From this came the word cagots = dog of the Goths
In the language of Occitania,dog is named as can but pronounced Ca.
Goth is write and pronounced Got
The Universe is like a Mamushka.
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Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Postby EnriqueEnriquez on 11 Apr 2009, 15:47

Talking to Jean-Claude and Roxanne, they pointed out that the creature scratching the Fool may very well be a Civet. Civets were used as household pet-control pets in the Middle Ages. They are indeed dray and have black stripes.

Best,


EE
What’s honeymoon salad? Lettuce alone
Don’t look now, mayonnaise is dressing!
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Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Postby jmd on 12 Apr 2009, 09:25

I'd thought long and hard about various possibilities, and in the end discarded the civet (or as it is known in France, the African Civet[te]) due to the clarity of difference between the depicted animal's short tail and the rather overly thick one found on civets (and their illustrations).

This does not mean we should dismiss the possibility, but it seems to me less likely than a lynx.

Here are two images I quickly obtained from the net for the purposes of comparison:

Image
Image

Still, and again comparing these in distinction to either a bad representation of a dog or a not too bad representation of a European lynx, I find the last of these the most likely... in terms of the Noblet.

In addition, I should perhaps add here that Mark Filipas, in his Alphabetic Masquerade, mentions the FOX in connection with this card.
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Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Postby SteveM on 12 Apr 2009, 10:00

jmd wrote:In addition, I should perhaps add here that Mark Filipas, in his Alphabetic Masquerade, mentions the FOX in connection with this card.


What sort of fox would that be?

שועל(fox) :
שועל החולות Vulpes rueppelli
פנק Vulpes zerda
שועל מצוי Vulpes vulpes
שועל הכף Vulpes chama
שועל צוקים Vulpes cana
שועל קורסאקי Vulpes corsac
שועל מקרוטיס Vulpes macrotis
שועל קיט Vulpes velox

שועל זאבי Dusicyon
שועל ארגנטינאי Pseudalopex
שועל שלג Alopex
שועל אפור Urocyon
שועל אוזנן Otocyon
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot
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Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Postby jmd on 12 Apr 2009, 10:25

As usual, Steve, a fantastic list of possible alternatives... and of course I realise that you're aware that Mark Filipas suggests a correlation with Tav, not Shin.

If anyone is interested, there's a pretty useful summary of his small book's correlation on his site at www.spiritone.com/~mfilipas.

In this case, the word(s) used for 'fox' are based on and derived from the sources he lists. Specifically, תעל ThOL.
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Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Postby SteveM on 12 Apr 2009, 10:43

jmd wrote:In this case, the word(s) used for 'fox' are based on and derived from the sources he lists. Specifically, תעל ThOL.


I prefer your lynx, perhaps it has fallen of Filipas WoF* ;)

*YNQS=LYNX
Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different.
T. S. Eliot
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Re: Jean Noblet Tarot

Postby jmd on 12 Apr 2009, 10:55

I made that same misreading when I first looked at his list... that's not Lynx, but iynx ;)
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