Uncut sheet from Toulouse

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Uncut sheet from Toulouse

Postby robert on 10 Apr 2012, 09:24

In Game of Tarot, Dummett mentions "an uncut sheet, showing twelve court cards which may come from a Tarot pack made in Toulouse, is in the Musée Paul Dupuy in that city." He mentions it when discussing existing 17th century decks along with the Vieville, anonymous Parisienne, and the Adam C. de Hautot. He says it is discussed in "B. Dusan, 'Cartes a jouer anciennes', the Revue archéologique du Midi, Vol. II, 1869, p.120, which I have not seen"
I found the article online here:
http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/010363288
Click the link, Volume I and II are in the same PDF, so look towards the second half, about two thirds into the document.

Here are three screen grabs going over two pages showing the 12 cards, (click to enlarge).





I can't read the article as it is in French, but perhaps someone who can will give us more insight into the deck. I'm surprised to see it dated from the 17th century, and wonder if Dummett would have agreed if he had seen it? It's very much a Tarot de Marseille II style deck, and it would be interesting to compare it to the Chosson or Madenié.
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Re: Uncut sheet from Toulouse

Postby Ross G. R. Caldwell on 10 Apr 2012, 09:38

Very interesting Robert, thanks.

I'll take a look at the article.

The first thing that comes to mind is that, if really made in Toulouse, it would be the only example I know of, of a Tarot made west of the Rhône. In other words, no Tarots known from Nîmes, Montpellier, Béziers, Narbonne, Carcassone, Toulouse, etc.

I don't think those cards can be 17th century, just by the orthography: "Roi", "Epee" "Baton", etc. It should be "Roy", "Espee", "Baston", etc.
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Re: Uncut sheet from Toulouse

Postby Huck on 10 Apr 2012, 10:04

I don't get the pdf ... (partnership required)

but the article seems to start here (?), page 119

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=n ... 17;num=119
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Re: Uncut sheet from Toulouse

Postby Ross G. R. Caldwell on 10 Apr 2012, 10:06

Huck wrote:I don't get the pdf ... (partnership required)

but the article seems to start here (?), page 119

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=n ... 17;num=119


It is better from Google Books here -

http://books.google.fr/books?id=muNZAAA ... &q&f=false

volume 2 is in the second part
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Re: Uncut sheet from Toulouse

Postby robert on 10 Apr 2012, 10:07

Thanks Ross!
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Re: Uncut sheet from Toulouse

Postby Ross G. R. Caldwell on 10 Apr 2012, 10:31

There's no indication that the wood-block comes from Toulouse, for the Tarot cards at least. Dusan indicates that he knows that the Tarot courts are younger than the Spanish suited cards he talks about and shows earlier:

"The lovely block belonging to M. Baldeirous, perfectly preserved, is clearly less ancient [than the Spanish-suited cards of M. Ducos]; its details show a transition of old types barely changed since Charles VII to types more recent. The King of Swords, the King of Batons still have the face entirely shaved like in the earliest time of the game's invention; but the beard of the other Kings indicates a time after François I, while their hairstyles and costume, as well as the armour of the Knight of Swords, the fit (or alignment) of the Queens, and the form of the letters, do not designate an era neighbouring the 17th century."
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Re: Uncut sheet from Toulouse

Postby Bertrand on 10 Apr 2012, 12:30

Great !
A tarot pack from Toulouse would be an awesome find, but it seems necessary to track this mold.
As Ross point out and as the text notes, the letters might indicate a late deck, for instance there's a rounded letter U in the ROI DE COUPE. The King of Coins and the heels below several shoes remind of swiss decks, like Gassman.
I don't know of any written references to Tarot from the Toulouse region - contrary to Provence where references can be found dating back to XVIth or XVIIth century ( for instance http://books.google.fr/books?id=4Qk6AAA ... 22&f=false here in a text written in provencal), but I seem to remember some cardmakers families come from Agen which is not far.
To be sure we would also need occitan language translations of the cards names - if they existed at all.

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Re: Uncut sheet from Toulouse

Postby sembei on 10 Apr 2012, 13:26

Is this Paul Dupuy (1867-1944) somehow related to the Dupuy printer in the Arnoult 1748?

The sheet has some resemblances with that deck.
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Re: Uncut sheet from Toulouse

Postby sembei on 24 Nov 2014, 01:52

In the British Museum:
http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/c ... 5&partId=1

"Late 19th century impression from a woodblock in the collection of M. Baldeirous of Toulouse".

I suggest you to compare with the Bourlion deck:
http://images.bnf.fr/jsp/index.jsp?dest ... rcheSimple
The thief left it behind: the moon at my window. ---- RYOKAN ----
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