Re: JEAN DODAL / LE PAPE card

#11
R.A. Hendley wrote:(If you look at the Noblet right monk, then the left monk, then the right monk, then the left monk, back and forth real fast, it looks like they are applauding the Pope. :lol: )
LOL! :lol: :D
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Re: JEAN DODAL / LE PAPE card

#12
Robert:
1-I teached here in Argentine European Art in my past for more than 25 years,and did art as you know for more than this.
2-I now the supposed "licenses" artists felt free to did they work.Nothing wrong.See Van Gogh,all fits on the "overall".
He never deformed figures,if an arm went big he compensates on the overall.
3-Specially Noblet and Dodal are for me very closest to Romanesque Art.
For some people is grotesque as North Europe expressionism...
4-If one think that that odd "bulk" is the arm of the right monk ...
a- I don t understand the "escorzo" with the hand,a contorsion that nothing follow on itself an on the whole card.
b-If that monk have such arm surely figure in the genealogical tree of Arnold Schwarzenegger ...
5-Really i expect Flornoy answer to me.For me will be an honour...
Aside discrepancies you / I / others could have with him,for me doesn t matter Robert...
6-I will ask to him face to face if there are or not three fingers on the extreme below pointing the E letter.
7-I forgot it...
Venicebard... // The man who never proved the link between Hebrew,bards and Tarot de Marseille aside his imagination...
But for me is not a Mother arm.
8-The Ancient Tarot of Bologna show a figure coming in from the left ...

Till the next,

eugim
The Universe is like a Mamushka.

Re: JEAN DODAL / LE PAPE card

#13
here is another example option that I found on the high respected ROM site.
It s the Bicentenary Conver deck of 1960 done by the father of the son of the "egg" ...

http://tarotchoco.quebecblogue.com/files/2008/02/05.jpg

1-Here I think the image goes more clear as the bulk it s show as a part of the Pope tunic.
2-The blue hand of the monk is overlapped with it s tunic.
3-The arm is clearly shown.
So don t follow the pattern of the garment of the monk as I see.
The Universe is like a Mamushka.

Re: JEAN DODAL / LE PAPE card

#14
Hi Eugim,

Well... I'm not sure if the Conver helps your case at all.

I put less emphasis on the Conver because of its relatively late date... but even here, if you look at the line that makes up the robe of the monk, you can see that it is completely unbroken where, on the Dodal and Payen at least, there is a part that sticks out a bit helping to give the impression of of the arm. The lack of coloring on the hand also implies that, in this Conver set at least, he was focused on the robe, not the hand.

Here the right hand on the left monk is now pointing down. This is an example of what I was saying earlier about confusion where the hands go.

I think the Dodal and Payen are better subjects for your position. What's the Chosson look like?
The Tarot will lose all its vitality for one who allows himself to be side-tracked by its pedantry. - Aleister Crowley

Re: JEAN DODAL / LE PAPE card

#15
Many Thanks Robert !!!
It s far the best example ...

1- See the thumb.
It s impossible in such angle of the thumb to be own of the right monk hand ...
2-Now here has a sense the Arnold Schwarzenegger arm of the monk on the others wrong for me examples.
So that why I think he coloured a yellowed band to make a difference between both.
3-So a better sustain to go ahead i think.


:) :) :)
The Universe is like a Mamushka.

Re: JEAN DODAL / LE PAPE card

#16
.

Schwarzenegger Arm! I love it! :lol:

I think it is meant to be the puffy robe sleeve, not the guy's actual arm. But I don't know. Maybe this fella's been lugging around some big, heavy full editions of the Summa.


RaH
When a clock is hungry, it goes back four seconds.

Re: JEAN DODAL / LE PAPE card

#17
That 'clapping' sense is fantastic, isn't it!? It's an irreverence that I too made mention somewhere... ("YAY!!! MORE - go on Poppey - more!!!!!" ;))

In looking at the card images from quite early decks, I personally suspect that the figure on the left may originally have been intended to have been holding some kind of book or parchment. Perhaps for his own reading (music?), or perhaps as the person responsible to uphold the Gospels from which the Pope was to read. In fact, even the right-hand figure appears to also have before him some parchment.

A version of the card (unfinished) designed by Robert quite some months ago (2 years???) - (with discussions between us going back and forth about it) is the following:

Image


I present it not so much as a historical model, but rather one that is based on looking carefully at the lines and what they may have perhaps referred to.
Image
&
Image
association.tarotstudies.org

Re: JEAN DODAL / LE PAPE card

#20
.

EUGIM! Shhhhhhh. My being the 'Greatest Crab Dancer' is suppose to be a secret! ;)

As for the great mystery of the little known hermetic cabbalic alchemical clapping, JMD is far better qualified to reveal the mysteries than I. :lol:



R
When a clock is hungry, it goes back four seconds.

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