Cary Sheet again

[SteveM]

As Ross says, the Visconti Hours is replete with poulaine, far too many for me to scan. There are a couple of other things of interest, the hat of Balaam for instance has a little top 'knot':





The stool on which the man sits in this image of a couple playing chess is like that in the garden of the lovers:



OT: but as it is part of the same image as the couple I scanned in, the left hand side of the image might also be of interest as it shows Temperance with cups above Fortitude with club and shield with the head of a lion:

[Ross G. R. Caldwell]

Thanks for those images Steve. I find Balaam's hat less convincing a cognate than Rosanne's though; and the Hours are far too early for comparison.

I think the most Italian-looking features are the outer sleeves of the Empress and Temperance. Robert and I had a go at this a while ago - not so good as the current go! - and found that the Charles VI "Love" card, now assigned to Florence and dated to around 1460 (so effectively contemporary with the Visconti-Sforza), shows a very good cognate in the girl at the very back of the procession of lovers. I can't find the post where we discussed this now - maybe Robert remembers.

I think our best best is to look at prints, particularly playing cards, from various places. My search for Jean de Dale (sometimes also "Jehan"), a playing-card maker from Lyon in the late 15th century, doesn't match the style (one Knight has the sleeves, but the rest of garment doesn't).

Just for the record, another set of nice pattens, although not worn with real poulaines, is this one from the Master of the Playing Cards (German), 1454, showing an Unter of Flowers.




http://www.rosscaldwell.com/images/imag ... pc1454.jpg

Scanned from Detleff Hoffmann, "The Playing Card: An Illustrated History" (Edition Leipzig, 1973), plate 30a

[SteveM]

I think the most Italian-looking features are the outer sleeves of the Empress and Temperance. Robert and I had a go at this a while ago - not so good as the current go! - and found that the Charles VI "Love" card, now assigned to Florence and dated to around 1460 (so effectively contemporary with the Visconti-Sforza), shows a very good cognate in the girl at the very back of the procession of lovers. I can't find the post where we discussed this now - maybe Robert remembers.

You mean the exploring the Cary Yale sheet thread at AT, your post here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php? ... stcount=28

From this thread:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.ph ... ge=1&pp=10

[SteveM]

Just for the record, another set of nice pattens, although not worn with real poulaines, is this one from the Master of the Playing Cards (German), 1454, showing an Unter of Flowers.

I can see in my mind another German one, a page / falconer I think on a black and white floor - deck name begins with G... only a few of the cards survice... '

[Ross G. R. Caldwell]

You mean the exploring the Cary Yale sheet thread at AT, your post here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php? ... stcount=28

From this thread:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.ph ... ge=1&pp=10

Yes, that's it. Thanks!

I'll put the relevant image up in this post, unless someone gets to it first.

Here is the best resolution image I can get, from the BnF website:
http://expositions.bnf.fr/renais/feuille/index4.htm

[SteveM]

I think the most Italian-looking features are the outer sleeves of the Empress and Temperance.

I think we found the style was common over a large region and time, here for convenience are some of the links that were found for that thread:

German fashion early 15th century:


An example from the painter Piero della Francesca and a couple of others from the Schifanoia fresco:


French, after 1500:

[Ross G. R. Caldwell]

Great selection Steve! Yes, I guess those sleeves are not a giveaway sign of date or provenance.

[mmfilesi]

Thanks, Steve and Ross... Great analisys

*************

This detail is very important:

medias.jpg (20.5 KiB) Viewed 555 times

In 1457, a thirteen Galeazzo Sforza, was at the court of Borso d'Este, where he made a nice Impressions. When back to Milan, Borso give him many presents, including the right to display her heraldic colors in the "calze" (tights). (Which was considered a great honor).

In this case, is not the heraldic color of the Este (blue, red and yellow),

http://www.europeanheraldry.org/modena.html

but this story helps us look at this detail.

It would be interesting to know what heraldic are in this "calze".

[Ross G. R. Caldwell]

I don't know if "red, white and green" will help at all, since they are the heraldic colours of Italy!

Who is "Italy"?

Intriguing observation, Marcos.

[Ross G. R. Caldwell]

The Sienese district Contrada dell'Oca uses these colours -
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobile_Contrada_dell%27Oca

But the red is a band in the middle. Should we expect, if this was a man from Siena, that he would have green tights with a white band, with a red band in the middle of the white?