Dating the François Chosson Tarot?

[EUGIM]

1-I think Robert that the " 1c 72 " topic let s to us two possibilities here...
1672 or 1872
2-For me frankly the pattern of the cards image don reflect the one of these time. (1672)
Because we are talking about here between Noblet and Dodal at less in terms of time.
3-See XXI card.
Which for your background solid experienced is the card deck more closest for the one of Chosson ?
-Well my friend I vote for the one of Nicolas Conver undoubtedly ...
Please just compares with the pair (Tarot de Marseille 1) Noblet/Dodal...
4-I purpose a new game here I all want...
a-Forget all we read about all
So forget dates even if they are pointed on the 2 de coupe.
b-Just WATCH the cards compares with others decks on a visual sense.
At least I m not an historian even If I respect it too much.
But I have a card one two or many in front of my eyes.
c-Common Robert you have enough Art background please...
If Noblet really seems Picasso // Chosson really seems Matisse but not Conver ...
See the masterly use of the continuous line on IIX card (XII) / It s a class art work.
BTW // A pupil of mine today saw the image and just said "Matisse" undoubtedly going agree with my opinion.

My best ...

[EUGIM]

Well,first let me shake the dust here....
Many months passed by !
A passionate thread.Isn t it ?

-Even if I am not yet convinced about the date 1672 given to this deck by some dear members here,is a fact that must be older than I suppose it.
Just see the pattern IIX/LE PENDV and its variants.
The purpose is to see how far is in terms of time Chosson regarding Conver.

1-XII: TdP / Vieville / Noblet / Conver

2- IIX : Pierre Madenié / Dodal / J.P. Payen / Chafard / Chosson / Krebs

3- PendV : Adp / Noblet / Pierre Madenié / Dodal / J.P. Payen / Chafard / Chosson

4- PendU : Conver / Krebs

-Having Chosson the V and Conver the U and comparing those decks which have also IIX pairing with the V is logical to suspect Chosson too much earlier than Conver.
Btw,I ask to me if there is another deck earlier than Conver that have the U at PENDU
I can t found it yet.

-On there other side the XII pattern is widely spread from mid 1600 to 1760

[robert]

I'm not sure that we can assume too much based on the spelling or order of the numbering. I think it's interesting and worth exploring, but I would certainly not base the dating of the cards on this predominantly.

I think comparing the patterns of the artwork might help understand the development, and to this, I agree that the titles and numbers are a fraction of the bigger picture.

[jmd]

Except... that I do think Eugim has a point in that decks that utilise the older 'V' generally predate those that utilise the 'U'.

[EUGIM]

Sorry I forgot it...
The Tdp card is named LE PANDVT

[robert]

Except... that I do think Eugim has a point in that decks that utilise the older 'V' generally predate those that utilise the 'U'.

I suppose so, but nothing that the regular dating doesn't already reveal. We know that Chosson is earlier than Conver, it would perhaps be interesting if it were the other way around. Other than that, am I missing something?

[EUGIM]

Yes Robert,you are missing the fact that we really don t have a prove if the Chosson deck is earlier for example than Conver.
The "c" also could be an 8 instead a 6
I mean in the same way I can also suppose that may be is not earlier than any other deck till have more support.
I am not missing what Ross once said about G. Sellon,but if I not misunderstood,that was just a supposition.
We only have the cards in front of us,so by comparing numbering,naming and visual details we can may be,stay more closer.
We all are agree that visually understood it,the deck is very closer to Conver,isn it ?.
Well,for example see the VII card: Chosson named it LE CHARIOR.
Which are the only decks that have the same name ?

Pierre Madenie,Dodal,both Payen,and curiously Renault.
May be I lost someone.(I have not Chafard)
So that suggest to us that may be the deck is really earlier than Conver.

[EUGIM]

On the side I don t ignore that Noblet and in the tdp is named LE CHARIOT.
So here I think we are crossing a bridge over troubled waters (don t worry,any videos here )

[Yves Le Marseillais]

[quote="EUGIM
Well,for example see the VII card: Chosson named it LE CHARIOR.
Which are the only decks that have the same name ?

Pierre Madenie,Dodal,both Payen,and curiously Renault.
May be I lost someone.(I have not Chafard)
So that suggest to us that may be the deck is really earlier than Conver.[/quote]

Hello Miguel,

Chafard (1747 so ) is namming LE CHARIOT...

Go ahead Amigo,

Big brother is watching you ...

YLM

[EUGIM]

I know it Big Bro ...
An Andrea Rincon a serious tarotist,also...